BTW i didnt think any one in this thread was attacking our products. Its an open discussion as to the sudden rise of the term "tricking"

 

Mike,
Reading the post above I think I may have some insite.

Any device that interupts the signal to alter the tune is considered a piggy back device. A slang termonology is "Tricker Device". The reason why it has this nick name is because it alters the signal by tricking the computer into seeing something different than what the sensor is actually seeing.

Any device that actually changes the tune of the pcm and can be unplugged and removed with the tune remaining is considered a tunner.

Both methods have been common for years.
Dave

 

So wouldnt adjusting nozzle placement be another means of tricking? I fail to see how it is any different. Whether you add more fuel via the interface or nozzle placement you still get the same exact result. One is mechanical and the other is electric but they both achieve the same end result. All of these cars are controlled through electronics, yet suddenly is a big no no to use an electronic device?? According to your standards that would make the new NX dry shot a tricking device, your tricking the MAF to add more fuel.

I do not see how "tuning" is any different then "tricking". The interface adjusts the A/F but is not a tuning device because you dont unplug it???

 

Maybe you or Dave could post some tune files, that would help a lot of people trying to correct a/f on your halo kits. I know Dave said a while back he would once he got back from the wedding...Thanks guys!!

Nick

 

Please dont take my post as saying any certain way is better than another. My post was not intended to start and arguement

I was just pointing out the different methods of Electronic tunning and why one way is refered to as tricking the computer.

As far as a using a nozzle or the new NX device. Its not tricking the computer.The maff is still delivering a true signal to the PCM. There are no electronics altering the signal from the maff to the PCM. Again not saying any certain way is better than the next. Not looking for an arguement.
Dave

 

Nick, Hopefully this does not come across like I am being a jerk. Its not intended that way.

I talk to Moe a while back to look at the thread you are talking about. Not to put works in his mouth but I dont think he was interested in being a apart of all the childish nonsence and argueing posted in this section or waisting his time.

Myself Im not a tunner and have no interest in being one. That is what I have Moe for. I will gladly give any of our customers Moes phone number if they need tunning help.
Dave

 

Dave, i dont take this as an arguement, more of a discussion. Thats all i ever intended it to be.

According to you the timing tuner is really a timing tricker. This is why i am saying i see no difference between between tricking and tuning. Its one of the more common saftey features to have in a nitrous setup. But according to your standard of, "less is more" you wouldnt suggest someone get this device as it is in fact a "tricking device"

 

Yes the timming tunner alters the signal by interupting the signal from the crank posistion sensor. So yes it could be refered to as a tricking device as well. LS1 edit, HP Tuners, etc would not be considered a tricking device.


No where did I suggest anyone not using any certain product over another in this post. I dont want my post to be twisted into that. Remember my post was in reference into the two different ways of tunning devices.

Dave

 

Sorry dave, i was refering to your comment that... "Thats what I am always saying as well. The simplier the set up the less can go wrong.".....Where you were saying Amen to someone who did not want more external devices in his car. The timing tuner is an external device just as the interface is. So i am assuming your statement would hold true on the timing tuner as with the interface since they are both tricking devices

 

Mike,
Nothing you are posting has anything to do with anything I have commented on in this thread. Please go back and read post 22 so you can remember what my post was about.

Yes I have my personal preference on different items on the market and I am a fan of keeping it simple. However that has nothing to do with anything we were discussing above.
Thanks
Dave

 

I Agree With Nitor Dave.... Chris Thanks For You Help But The Fact Remains The Reason Your Device Is Being Labled A Tricker Is Due To The Fact That It Uses Electronics To Modify The Actual Signals Leaving The Sensors And "fools" The Pcm Into Thinking The Out Side Conditions Are Something Other Than They Really Are...

For Example Your Timeing( Tuner, Twister, Tricker, Ect..) Grounds Out Your Iat Signal Which Then References A Certain Degree Of Spark Retard In The Iat Timeing Table...

The Differnce From Tis And An Actual Tune Is That In A Real Tune The Pcm Still Sees The Actual Out Side Conditions Its Just Its Told To React Differently To These Conditions


**both Of These Ideas Seems To Be Good ***

The Only One I Dont Like Is Using Both The Halo And A Hsw Interface Because Your Basically Double Counting The N20....

 

Fair enough, i apologize for going off topic. My only point out of it was they are both devices that aid in running a nitrous system. Regardless if they stay plugged in or not, they both pull timing and serve several of the same functions as a tuning software package. Further more they are more beneficial then tuning via tuning software because they allow you to have 2 different tunes.

I wouldnt call the new NX dry shot a tricking device because it adjusts A/F without the use of the computer. Its a nice piece that allows you to tune your A/F to what you want it to be.

 

Chris, lets put this in context. Out of the hundreds of thousands of nozzle kits, none have ever run a piggy back controller either; Why, because this innovative product has not been out before. If you guys think that the Halo will not/can not benefit from this product, your going to miss out on a lot of sales of the Halo, IMO. The point of the Interface is to now make dry hits user friendly by allowing anyone with any sort of dry kit or wet kit to tune their system. Much, much cheaper than a tuner program and simple enough that all can now tune for a/f and timing. Trust me when I say, and I have tested and tried as much PCM tuning as any, the Interface has a giant place in the N2O industry. The Interface is by far a much easier way to tune for a/f on a dry hit.

Jpr5690, if you want to tune with a tuner program, check out my web site, it's all there in a way that most can comprehend. Good luck anyway, on which ever way you chose to tune. but, make sure you at least check your a/f before getting to aggressive with the spray. Glad you pointed out that you weren't yelling, lol.
Robert

 

Closing Comments: After Speaking With Nitro Daves Tuneing Guy On Th Ephone Today He Did Admit That With The Halo They Usually Just Pull The Timeing With The N\a Tune...

This Will Result In The Loss Of A Few Ponies When Not Spraying... That Being Said He Said They Used The Halo Many Times To Add Fuel And That It Worked Perfictly


I Personally Dont See Why Moe Cant Use The Iat To Pull Timeing As Supposdly N20 Enters The Intake At -120 Deg So You Could Definately Get Away With Just Setting Your Iat Table's Coldest Region To Retard Timeing And In Most Climates Never Miss That Region Of The Table (when Not Spraying) This May Require Relocation Of The Iat But Still To Me This Seems Like A Better Option That A Seccondary Unit (providing It Can Work)

 

Of course the Halo is going to add fuel, that's what it was designed to do. I don't really think your following here. The problem is, you have no way to adjust the a/f with out going into the tune and playing with factors that will also affect your n/a a/f, you get what you get period. This is where the interface comes into play, timing and fueling that won't effect n/a parameters. I really don't care what you do, but would like you to understand the workings of a dry hit. Of course a manufacturer is going to say what ever it takes to make a product sale-able, and they certainly don't want to give another manufacture a pat on the shoulder. that' where unbiased input comes into play. Both the Halo and the Interface are fine products that will make each other shine, now if we could get the vendors to...

By the way, the IAT temps on the spray will be all over the table, another reason the controller shines, it's leaps and bounds past the the IAT tricker method. New tech takes new methods to make the most of it.
Robert

 

The Theory Is That With The N20 Spraying You Can Achieve Different Maf Frequencies Than Would Be Achieved In N/a Applications And Accordingly Just Adjust Those Frequencies So Your N/a Tune Would Not Be Effected..

That Being Said Im Beginning To Like The Idea Of Hopeing My Maf And Iat Pick Up The N20 Less And Less... And Being The Hsw Unit Is Compareable In Cost To Most Timeing Only Devices It Seems Its A Cheep And Simple Way To Achieve A Dead On N20 Tune While Keeping You N/a Tune....

Although I Havent 100% Made Up My Mind On Which Way Im Going To Go The Only Thing I Know Im Not Going To Do Is Use Them Both... Either I Want To Rely On My Maf\iat To Tune The Car Or The Interface.. I Dont See A Reason To Do Both

 

Why wouldnt you use both? i know chris said they dont need external devices, but it can only help. One of its main features is to eliminate nozzle placement issues. So essential your getting a tuning device (i say tuning device because it allows you to adjust A/F) and a timing tuner all in one, for a cheaper price.

and your exactly right, the best function of the interface is that it allows you to have that N/A and N20 tunes.

 

If You Place Your Nozzle Pre Maf You Will Change The Maf Signal... Then You Change It Again With The Interface

For Example:

Lets Sap Im Usnig The Halo To Spray A 100 Shot And Not Changeing My N/a Tune But Using The Interface To Compensate

With The Interface Off Mabye 1\2 The Fuel Would Be Added By The Fact That The Maf Will Pick Up Some Of The N20 And Read A Higher Frequency So You Would Then Have To Go To The Hsw Unit And Set It For A 50 Shot

If You Set The Hsw Unit For A 100 Shot Then You Would Be Fueling For A 150 Shot Since The Maf Readings Are Already Being Skewed By Change In Maf Conditions

Being With The Hsw Interface You No Longer Have To Rely On The Maf You Might As Well Just Completly Remove It From The Equasion So That You No Longer Have Less Chances Of Problems.. Ie Simpleer Is Better(so Long As It Achieves The Same Results

 

Uhg!!! As I Was Typeing I Was Thinking

Ok So What Happens As Bottle Pressure Drops? The Hsw Interface Would Still Be Reading What Your Jetted For At Say 1000psi But If Your Nearly Out Of Gas You May Only Be Spraying 50-75% Of That.. In This Case A Maf Tuned Dry Kit "may" Be Able To Compensate For This While The Hsw Kit Will Suffer Much In The Same Way A Wet Kit Does..

 

With That Last Point ... It Seems Like If You Can Get By With Maf Tuneing It May Provide To Be More Flexable

I Guess Either Way Has Its Ups And Downs .. Im Guessing This Is Why Zex Came Out With Their System (which in Concept Was The Right Idea)