I have a 2000 ls1/t56 from a trans am ws6 in an 89 Rx7

 

I'm not exactly sure what is beign danced around. Right under the product listing on our site is a table of how much timing can be pulled via the interface.

http://www.harrisspeedworks.com/shop...cat=308&page=1

If you look under "how the interface works" you can see a link to the table showing the amount of timing that can be pulled under the various platforms.

I am sure you would agree that a majority of Fbody owners who spray are between the range of a 100-150 shot, in which case 3 degrees is usually enough even with a tune. If you want to pull more then that you of course can do so with tuning software like Hptuners or efilive by adjusting the iat spark advance correction table.

As we have stated over and over again, the interface isnt necessarily for everyone. Its main feature is not its ability to pull timing but rather the fueling side for both wet and dry applications. If you purchase our dry plate it already comes with the interface. Now if you have intentions of running a 100 or 150 shot on this system wouldnt it be not to have to purchase a timing tuner in addition to it?

 

The Lingenfelter Performance Engineering launch controller and timing controller does not take out timing by tricking the ECM/PCM IAT or ECT sensor (or any other sensor).

Our device is microprocessor controlled and is very precise and repeatable so the amount of timing being removed will be the same each time.

Our module plugs in between the coils and the ECM (using the factory coil back connections). Our device takes the signal from the ECM/PCM and then uses that to control the coils. When you are not in launch control/rpm limit mode and when you are not in timing retard mode, then our device just fires the coils just like the stock ECM/PCM would.

When you are using the timing retard feature of our device then our device retards when the coils are told to fire. No modifications to the factory calibration are required for our device to function correctly.

Since our device plugs in between the coils and the ECM/PCM, the computer does not know what the amount of timing retard is that our module is taking out. Our new controller, the LNC-002, provides an analog voltage output of the amount of timing retard that you have being taken out so that you can log this with EFILive, HPTuners, DashDAQ or many other devices and then know your actual spark timing.

The LNC-002 also has ramp rate adjustment capabilities on the timing retard so you can adjust how quickly the timing retard activates. This is especially useful for progressive nitrous systems.

 

I would think with most devices that modify the timing you should be able to have the timing retard active only when the nitrous is active (other than maybe dedicated nitrous and non-nitrous calibrations).

Our LNC-002 launch controller/timing controller has a dedicated timing retard trigger wire that you would connect to your nitrous solenoid or nitrous trigger wire. When the nitrous is active then you would have the timing retard from our controller also be active.

 

On devices that plug into the crank sensor and the camshaft position sensor I don't see how the ECM/PCM could be aware of the actual ignition timing since these devices achieve the timing changes by tricking the ECM/PCM as to the location of TDC.

If they had an analog output of the amount of offset they were telling the ECM/PCM then you could log that data along with the ECM/PCM timing data and subtract one from the other to know your actual timing. That is what we do with our LNC-002 launch/timing controller and the analog output it offers.

Although I don't normally like to use the devices that modify the ECT/IAT signal, those types of devices would have the correct timing show up in the scan tool data since you are tricking/fooling the ECM or PCM into using the IAT and/or ECT modifications tables to modify the actual ignition timing. The problem with using IAT and ECT modification devices is that several different IAT/ECT retard strategies exist depending on the make/model/year of vehicle and several other tables and modifiers exist (RPM modifies both, ECT modifies IAT retard etc.) so to make these types of devices work well you need to modify the ECM/PCM calibration in order to get the desired/expected timing retard and in order to get it in a repeatable manner.

 

The new LNC-002 Lingenfelter timing controller (and launch controller) can actually take out up to 15 degrres (the LNC-001 could only take out 10).

Both units can be set up to take out the timing only when the nitrous is active.

Side note - the LNC-002 (and the LNC-001) are only for use on LS series engines with the individual coil ignition systems. It might work on other engines converted to LS type coils/ignition systems but we haven't tested that yet.

 

The one thing all of you guys are missing here is the fact that the advanced mode of the timing pull of the Interface allows any amount to be pulled, and customizable timing curves, does any other? What does this mean, well you can have numerous dedicated timing curves, with different amount of pulls as well as variable rates through the rpm band. You can log all of this and see it work. Choose a more aggressive timing pull for a hot day or for adding another stage. the possibilities are limitless. I have plenty of screen shots of the Interface in action if anyone would like to see the multiple pulls in action. Now I think the newest Lingefelter product certainly has it place, and has options that the others don't offer, so there is something for everyone's needs out there. The units that can't be logged into out tuner programs are pretty useless in my opinion, lets just guess that it's working with our $25,000.00 motor, not for me.
Robert

 

Jason,

Thank you for all the technical info... And the phone conversations over time with Chris and I. I will be sending you a pm..
Thanks
Dave

 

so which of these controllers would be the best for my situation...gonna spray a 250 shot but only pull timing when i spray...thanks

 

Depends on what you're looking to do. If its a street driven car, I would take a look at the timing tuner or any of the other devices that pull timing when the kit is active. If its something that is only seeing track duty I would just pull the timing out of the tune.

Nick

 

I personally would not suggest any timming controll device that operates off the iat. There are to many chances of different results.

Currently the best timming controll device on market is the lingerfelter Since this thread started I have installed a few of them and sold a great deal of them. The lingerfelter works by pluging into the factory coil packs. When the sytsem is activated it will pull the set amount of timming. With the ligerfelter it also has a 5 volt reference wire so you can hook it to the tunning software and varify it is actually pulling the timming.

We keep both this unit, the timming twister and timing tuner in stock. deffintly go with the lingerfelter.

Dave

 

Please elaborate, I'm all ears...

Nick

 

If you would like a custom timing curve, or actually you can save three seprate curves, adding some in or taking some away at different rpms for best power/safety, then the only tuner out there that can do so is the Interface. Most have been pulling a fixed amount through out the run only because that was what was out there. Now our tuning options have just increased 10 fold. Once you get past your torque peak, adding a few degrees back in can add some power back for the final top end pull. Think about the combos.

If, and or when you go bigger and need a gob of timing pulled, then the Interface works here also, as there is no limit on the amount or where in the rpm range you chose the max pulled. I thinkit is Siznity that is currently running 0° timing on his Dry DP, and the quickest dry car is running 8° total on the spray. Myself amd at 10° for my 300 shot and only the Interface will pull my max at my tq peak. So you can see that having unlimited capabilities can pay off.

Then if your going multi stage, of course you can add more timing pull as stages are added, with the Interface.

The Interface is not an IAT resistor tricking mod as some would like you to believe, lol. It's a revolutionary, cutting edge technology, piggy back back tuner-control box. It works perfectly and varies none what so ever, that is ridiculous for some one to throw that out there, lol. The advanced mode is based up on your look up tables in the tune, so it does exactly what is commanded in said look up tables. There is no way to vary from commanded, for those that don't understand how the product works, or the tune for that matter. So if one is looking for a timing pulling device, they can get a fueling tuner on top for free, or visa-versa.
Robert