Ok, before I send off my solenoid to be rebuilt at nitrous outlet, do you guys see anything else that could be causing a dyno graph like attached?


This was a 150 shot through a nitro dave's plate. Help me out here guys!
Tim

N/a




Nitrous by mph, you'll see why in the next graph.....



Nitrous overlapped onto N/a

 

You're having some major issues up top, even on the N/A dyno. Give us a list of your whole combo including all the small details.

 

Why do the hp/tq lines cross at 4800 instead of 5252?

 

As mentioned above please provid us with some info on your setup. Also how are you suppling the fuel for the nitrous and what plugs are you using?

-Chris

 

List of motor i will be as specific as possible:

-.010 overbore
-Mahle 3.908 pistons
-Crower rods
-Stock crank
-Trex Cam
-Ls6 GMPP heads w/ stock valves
-Manley dual springs
Fast 90/90(unported)
SVO 30's
stock rail
stock Maf
MTI lid
NGK TR6 plugs. I think they were gapped way too loose. I pulled them this week and found them at .4. I put in a new set to .30

the trans is an TH350 with a 3500 10.5 PTC stall

Rear end is a 9" w/ 3.90's and a spool

The fuel is off the schrader valve. The system is controlled via a FJO. Here's an underhood pic:

 

I'm just afraid i am starting to chase 30 different "possible" problems rather than the right problem. I was told to try the following:
-upgrade to a -6an
-Check wiring of Solenoids
-Check Solenoids
-Wire it differently to the FJO possibly
-Close gaps on plugs

 

What major issues are you seeing up top Nick?

 

Well first thing is to address what's going on in the N/A dyno graph, which could be compounding the issues on the nitrous. I will shoot you over a check list on that. Also, how is the FJO wired up?

Nick

 

What specifically do you want to know about the wiring on it?

Thanks for any help!

 

Nick the wiring on the FJO is exactly the way FJO has it shown in there wiring diagram. The fuel and nitrous solenoid are wired together on one relay with the FJO controlling the ground. heres a picture. we are only using one stage....


One of the sugestions was to put the nitrous on the second stage and set both up in the FJO to come on at the same time... Ill try to get the video of the dyno run posted tonight.

 

A silly question, but here goes, are you sure you just don't have the 100hp jets in it, or the right combo? I don't see a lean condition up top or in any high load area, so it seems that fuel supply is adequate. An increase of only 55rwtq is certainly an indicator of a problem, whether you have it jetted for 100 or 150 (N2O supply?). I would start with supply issues on both sides, meaning make sure the noids are both opening all the way. It could be something as simple as a bad ground and noids not opening all the way. you could use could alligator clip jumper wires and add them to existing wires to eliminate a wiring problem (a direct ground from noids to battery). You could even by pass the FJO entirely to start the elimination process. just wire the noids directly and use your master arm to click the system on at a safe rpm level. maybe you have a clogged filter. we went through this just a bit back trying everything and it ended up being debris on the screen in the nitrous supply fitting and thus only letting a small amount of N2O through and thus a very low hp/tq increase while spraying. A problem he was having that compound this was a low bottle pressure issue. Good luck and keep us updated on what you find.
Robert

 

Robert,

I am glad to see you jump in on this thread! Actually, I am positive we had the 150 jets(per Nitro-daves plate sheet) in the plate. I ran it on the 100 jets, and it had the same problem at the track the previous week, which is why we headed to the dyno. On the 100jets, it picked up 2 mph through the 1/4.


Actually, that pic above of the nitrous hit, we even tried backing down one jet on the fuel side to try and lean out the hit a little. So, it was actually even richer than that with the correct fuel jet in there.

I read up on others problems(like yourself) and took off the entire line, as well as the solenoid to check for any debri/kinks in the line/etc. I found nothing unfortunately. I rarely post as the one asking for help, so i guess it's my turn to get schooled! I am just completely stuck on this one.

 

FIrst thing I would do is get back on the dyno and get a fuel pressure guage on the car. If you make a pull and the fuel pressure doesn't drop on you (more then say a psi or 3) I'd pull that god damn FPSS out of there. Those things are vibration sensative, and generally cause more problems then they are worth.

#2, get the #6 plugs out of the car. Put a set of #7 plugs in at a minimum. Stop listening to people telling you those are fine for nitrous, you have added compression, alot of cam, and can/WILL hurt things with that plug in there if something isn't right. They are TOO HOT.

Also, that FJO thing, are you using that as a way to turn the system on and off at a certain RPM? I have seen people have problems with those as well, that thing to me would be considered suspect.

I would test the soleniods to make sure they are working, if you have a WOT switch that you can activate with the car idling, just unhook the lines going to the plate with the car off and make sure that when you arm the system and activate it, both solenoids function. Unhook the lines to the plate and cap them, make sure you have somewhere for the fuel to drain into, and if you have the nitrous bottle open, make sure someone holds that line facing away from you, the car, etc with a pair of pliers or something so noone gets frostbite.

I suspect that you have some type of electrical ussue, when you get back on the dyno also make sure that the voltage at the solenoids is adequate. Make sure that you aren't seeing some type of voltage drop.

I am not a big fan of the relay's like you have it wired as well. Rather then using that relay to control the power that goes to actuate the solenoids, what I do is use a large starter solenoid that I bought at napa, the power that actuates the 2nd relay, wire this so that it actuates a large starter solenoid, then hardwire power so that the big starter solenoid closes the circuit to the nitrous/fuel solenoids rather then running it thru the relay, and wire the power for the solenoids right off the battery. This insures they are getting good power to operate correctly.


I have a wiring diagram of how I have my car wired if you would like it I can e-mail it to you, I don't bother with the fjo or window switch or any of that to be honest. it's got a WOT switch, an arm switch, and is interrupted by the transbrake. If you have a transbrake this will work perfect. If you don't, you can still run it the way I do, just make sure you shift before the car gets to the rev limiter. You have a loose enough stall in the car so that if you stall it up to say 1100 rpm on the line, and just stab the gas I guarintee the motor is up to 3000+ rpm before you get to WOT to engage the kit.



One way that you can do this, is to

 

I agree, i don't have a FPSS. Those things are for the birds.

I would be willing to try this. I assume they also gap at .30-.35???


Yes I am using it, but i have it set to 100% at 3k, period. All it is being used for right now is WOT/window switch. I am not using it's ramping capabilities at all.


I can do this as well, that's an easy test.


I'm not a big wiring guru myself, so i can lets my buddy answer to this one. He wired it.

Again, I'll let him talk about this part, haha

I have no Tbrake yet, but will probably next year. Please do send me your wiring diagram. I will pm you my email.

Thanks man!

 

Are you running off the stock pump, a dedicated or racetronix system?

-Chris

 

How is your transmission (or clutch of your a stick)?
I've seen squigly lines like that when you have driveline slip. See if the shop can give you the effective gear ratio during the pulls you already did.That would tell you for sure if that is it.

edit:
The more I lok at your first graph, the more it looks like your slipping. Once it hit 378ft-lbs it looks like it can't hold it anymore, then its all down hill from there Combined with the fact that the a/f dosent do anything weird at that point.
g/l
Vinny

 

Yes gap the colder plug at 35, if you tighten the gap up too much it just gets harder to start.

I assume you havea fuel pump in the car, if you don't get one. I have a racetronix in my car with the hotwire setup right to the battery that's now in the trunk, so the wire is even short to that. The pump sees about a 1/4 volt more now with the wire shortened up, believe it or not.

 

I have the basic Racetronix w/ hotwire, no standalone.



Vinny,

It's a relatively new FMVB TH350 w/ a PTC stall w/o a Tbrake. So you think it may be the stall? That's another thought. It holds just fine on the motor from what i can tell(traps 120 in 2600da), but i guess that is a definite possibility on spray.

 

Ok, I will get a new set tommorow and try that. Plug swap is an easy fix.



read above reply. It's a racetronix w/ hotwire. I gotta believe that's doing fine, as i'm seeing plenty of fuel in the A/f.

 

o.k. Missed that. You should have enough fuel, I'm on the same setup with a 402 and have no issues.

Run good fuel too, don't mess with pump gas. Leaded race fuel please... have the car tuned open loop, no more O2's to worry about and it's just safer. Unless you're still street driving the car, in that case, Open loop it anyway.