How did the races Go
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 359
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Originally Posted by DrEvyl
How do you define a car that is "built for bracket racing"?
I mean... my Formula is built for bracket racing, if you really wanna get down to it. That's what I bought it for. Guys like Kenny have super consistent cars because they've doing this for decades, and just have lots of practice in getting their car dialed in.
I mean... my Formula is built for bracket racing, if you really wanna get down to it. That's what I bought it for. Guys like Kenny have super consistent cars because they've doing this for decades, and just have lots of practice in getting their car dialed in.
Originally Posted by esoteric
I think an ideal bracket car would be setup for little or no wheel spin through the selection of the stall converter and tires (as well as the suspension); it would have an automatic transmission set to shift on its own. I think a low rpm high-torque engine would work better than a high revving engine, but that would depend on how fast you wanted to go. I'm probably leaving a lot out but that would be my idea of a bracket car. That's not what I built my car for, and it shows.
I'd probably have more fun with the car if it was a stick.. but on the track, the automatics are the best choice for the brackets.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,209
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From: Monroe, Washington
Originally Posted by Racehead
Finally getting a chance to put my 2 cents worth in here. I agree with what everyone's been saying. Last night just sucked. There wasn't a single good thing about it IMO. I would just as soon boycott the remainder of the PR CCC races this year if I knew we had the championship locked up just by running Bremerton ? The track was slicker 'n **** last night, and for my car that's a time killer since I have trouble hooking up on a decent track. I know I need alot more tire, but the track honestly sucked 
The sun behind the tree was totally screwing me up too.
The bottom line for me is this ..... myself and all the people I know in this club race for fun and fun only. Last night wasn't any fun for most. Why the fu** would we go back ? To ensure a championship ? Not me folks .... NOT friggen'' me. Standing around in the pits, and then standing around even more in the lanes all damn night for the runs that I got in just wasn't worth it. I don't suffer things that **** me off very well, I think Bremerton will be the only races I attend from here on.
The sun behind the tree was totally screwing me up too.The bottom line for me is this ..... myself and all the people I know in this club race for fun and fun only. Last night wasn't any fun for most. Why the fu** would we go back ? To ensure a championship ? Not me folks .... NOT friggen'' me. Standing around in the pits, and then standing around even more in the lanes all damn night for the runs that I got in just wasn't worth it. I don't suffer things that **** me off very well, I think Bremerton will be the only races I attend from here on.
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,023
Likes: 6
From: LT1 land...the "409" of the 90s!
Well i am also Guilty of having a bracket car...and so is my wife. I ran a .034 PACKAGE against Hoover in the second round it looked some thing like this 029 R/T and a 13.265 on a 13.26 dail.
Then we packed up the car and drove 70 miles home
I would ALSO like to note some of those 6-9 second cars that ran last night.....
...DROVE to the Burger master in Bothell after the races tonite
Not bad since I know the Vette drives from Auburn
I mean they are not really fast only running 7s or 8s for the most part but they are to fast to run in the CCCA
Then we packed up the car and drove 70 miles home
I would ALSO like to note some of those 6-9 second cars that ran last night.....
...DROVE to the Burger master in Bothell after the races tonite
Not bad since I know the Vette drives from Auburn I mean they are not really fast only running 7s or 8s for the most part but they are to fast to run in the CCCA
Originally Posted by WAHUSKER
And several guys trailer their cars too. I think that is a violation? But I will most likely do that next year if I can afford to. It's just too much trouble changing tires & such when you get to the track.
Brian
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 359
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People trailer for different reasons: distance, fear of breaking, convenience. That, in itself, does not make you a bracket racer or disqualify you. If we try to keep dedicated racecars out of the competition, it's going to take some careful wording and even with well written rules, it won't be perfect. But I think it's worth a try for next year. We can tighten things a little and see how it goes.
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 359
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Originally Posted by TwoFast4Lv
Well i am also Guilty of having a bracket car...and so is my wife. I ran a .034 PACKAGE against Hoover in the second round it looked some thing like this 029 R/T and a 13.265 on a 13.26 dail.
Then we packed up the car and drove 70 miles home
I would ALSO like to note some of those 6-9 second cars that ran last night.....
...DROVE to the Burger master in Bothell after the races tonite Not bad since I know the Vette drives from Auburn
I mean they are not really fast only running 7s or 8s for the most part but they are to fast to run in the CCCA
Then we packed up the car and drove 70 miles home
I would ALSO like to note some of those 6-9 second cars that ran last night.....
...DROVE to the Burger master in Bothell after the races tonite
Not bad since I know the Vette drives from Auburn I mean they are not really fast only running 7s or 8s for the most part but they are to fast to run in the CCCA
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,023
Likes: 6
From: LT1 land...the "409" of the 90s!
Originally Posted by esoteric
You're a professional, Ellis. We need to legislate you out of the competition
LOL! They have tried
I just train better people to fill my shoes 
Here is where I am standing right now. I say we skip the next PR race. It will only cost PR about a grand so they wont notice. Our competion will show up in droves to fill our shoes and points. Then do both the Bremerton race AND the final race. We will have had a month to clam down and can start going over places to fill PRs crappy shoes for next year
Even if we dont show up a few of our guys will be there because they are still running the show. I know Bill likes our company and not being hung out to dry Besides it will save me the $100-$150 I spend at every race
We had to many Races at PR this year any ways! Last edited by TwoFast4Lv; Jul 31, 2005 at 12:38 PM.
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12 Second Club
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 173
Likes: 0
From: Marysville. WA
Ellis
I have too be at PR for those who show up and give away the trophies. I believe we made a commitment and should follow thru until the end of the season. We can have a CCCA meeting in September and discuss the next season but don't just quite when were so close.
I plan on finishing what I started and maybe take most of next year off. We have a good lead now and if some people take the next race off it won't hirt to bad. I finished the points last night and we have 256 with Muscle Car in 2nd at 146. You are tied for 12th with 16 points and have a good chance at one of the top 3 spots at the end of the year. Think about it before the 12th and hope to see you there.
Bill Sallia
I have too be at PR for those who show up and give away the trophies. I believe we made a commitment and should follow thru until the end of the season. We can have a CCCA meeting in September and discuss the next season but don't just quite when were so close.
I plan on finishing what I started and maybe take most of next year off. We have a good lead now and if some people take the next race off it won't hirt to bad. I finished the points last night and we have 256 with Muscle Car in 2nd at 146. You are tied for 12th with 16 points and have a good chance at one of the top 3 spots at the end of the year. Think about it before the 12th and hope to see you there.
Bill Sallia
Originally Posted by esoteric
People trailer for different reasons: distance, fear of breaking, convenience. That, in itself, does not make you a bracket racer or disqualify you. If we try to keep dedicated racecars out of the competition, it's going to take some careful wording and even with well written rules, it won't be perfect. But I think it's worth a try for next year. We can tighten things a little and see how it goes.
Personally, I think the real solution is to do the driver mod.
That's how NWMA started kicking everyone's asses, and that's how NW F-body turned it around. This seems more like we're trying to handicap everyone to the point that they are amatuer enough to make it anyone's ball game. You're just regulating the best racers out of the competition.
Personally, I would rather get my *** kicked every single week by someone who is really good than have it be easy pickings.
Originally Posted by Vettestir
Ellis
I have too be at PR for those who show up and give away the trophies. I believe we made a commitment and should follow thru until the end of the season. We can have a CCCA meeting in September and discuss the next season but don't just quite when were so close.
I plan on finishing what I started and maybe take most of next year off. We have a good lead now and if some people take the next race off it won't hirt to bad. I finished the points last night and we have 256 with Muscle Car in 2nd at 146. You are tied for 12th with 16 points and have a good chance at one of the top 3 spots at the end of the year. Think about it before the 12th and hope to see you there.
Bill Sallia
I have too be at PR for those who show up and give away the trophies. I believe we made a commitment and should follow thru until the end of the season. We can have a CCCA meeting in September and discuss the next season but don't just quite when were so close.
I plan on finishing what I started and maybe take most of next year off. We have a good lead now and if some people take the next race off it won't hirt to bad. I finished the points last night and we have 256 with Muscle Car in 2nd at 146. You are tied for 12th with 16 points and have a good chance at one of the top 3 spots at the end of the year. Think about it before the 12th and hope to see you there.
Bill Sallia
For some to even get out there to run it is a long drive and costs more than should really be spent - if you like to race for fun then wouldn't even more issues at the track just make sense to not run?
And the flip side to that would be - if you are spending the time and money to get your car running better each week and season then what good would it do to spend that time and money if you only go to a few races at Bremerton?
Ellis is correct that officials and owners wouldn't care if no one was representing a particular club or didn't show up to race. They know some people are going to race anyway, without a group, leaving room for those who have never been out there to spend their money instead. If every event drew large crowds *then* it would get the attention of the bean counters but that just is not the case with any race or show club in our state.
There are two sides to this fence and I would hope everyone takes some good thought as to which side they would want to be on.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 190
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From: Moxee, WA
Originally Posted by Vettestir
Ellis
I have too be at PR for those who show up and give away the trophies. I believe we made a commitment and should follow thru until the end of the season. Bill Sallia
I have too be at PR for those who show up and give away the trophies. I believe we made a commitment and should follow thru until the end of the season. Bill Sallia
1) Safe and viable racing conditions within their realm of ability (meaning not waiting for the participants to request postponement when weather conditions, such as sundown, interfere and cause unsafe or unfair conditions)
2) Reasonable time allotment for the CCC Races to take place, without undue rush or overlapping from other events - you pay for the time, you should get it, period.
3) A show of some respect from personnel for paying participants - it doesnt matter how much or how little the money is, it is still money, and bad PR can go a long way.
Having not provided those things - which are assumed in any agreement, no need to be stated - they have as much as backed out on their commitment to the CCCA.
I hope you guys can finish off the season smoothly, and find a better place to host the races for next year
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From: Lynnwood, WA (North of Seattle)
Originally Posted by Daredevil_TA
yea, i think not having the official "nw fbody" stamp on the back of my car threw them off, they prolly thought i was just trying to sneak in infront of everybody, and i felt like such a jackass cuz i was holding everybody up, i went to the tower, an they saw that i already had a card so they were like, oh your good-i didnt know i had to let them know i was racing for a car club-i prolly should've talked to you guys before i went up there-and it sucks when your car is cleaaaarrrrr, in the back cuz the tech guys dont like to walk that far, so i always end up getting inspected at the line--not a great night
Originally Posted by WAHUSKER
I meant NO disrespect. I meant I don't like sandbagging. I dial what the car will run & see if you can beat me. To each his own....it's ALL good to me. I'm just there for the fun. WHich I had VERY little of last night!!!
The only other track I have raced at is LA County Raceway and the elevation sucks, the track is **** but you can get tons of runs in and the employees are friendly. If PR is like that all the time, I have NO problem with a boycott.....it isn't like I am gonna win any races anyway.
If there is a "commitment" to race there, I would be curious what the wording of that is....I mean, it isn't like everyone can get off work/make the time/have the money to be at each race......so boycotting isn't likely to be much different then if most of us couldn't make it for a particular race. Just my $.02
TECH Veteran
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,954
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From: Kent WA
Originally Posted by Vettestir
Ellis
I have too be at PR for those who show up and give away the trophies. I believe we made a commitment and should follow thru until the end of the season. We can have a CCCA meeting in September and discuss the next season but don't just quite when were so close.
I plan on finishing what I started and maybe take most of next year off. We have a good lead now and if some people take the next race off it won't hirt to bad. I finished the points last night and we have 256 with Muscle Car in 2nd at 146. You are tied for 12th with 16 points and have a good chance at one of the top 3 spots at the end of the year. Think about it before the 12th and hope to see you there.
Bill Sallia
I have too be at PR for those who show up and give away the trophies. I believe we made a commitment and should follow thru until the end of the season. We can have a CCCA meeting in September and discuss the next season but don't just quite when were so close.
I plan on finishing what I started and maybe take most of next year off. We have a good lead now and if some people take the next race off it won't hirt to bad. I finished the points last night and we have 256 with Muscle Car in 2nd at 146. You are tied for 12th with 16 points and have a good chance at one of the top 3 spots at the end of the year. Think about it before the 12th and hope to see you there.
Bill Sallia
Not only that, but to have to compete for space with open T&T night AND another series (Diesels)... personally, I'd like to see Pacific seperate things out a little better like Bremerton does. Bremerton has street legals and open T&T on Friday nights too... but they don't schedule us then, they schedule us on Saturday with other competitions... as it should be.
Pacific just plain charges too much for it to be worthwhile putting up with crappy treatment by the staff, ***-backward track management, and zero respect for the racers who pay good money to run there and actually put on a decent competitive event.
This is in no way a dig on the CCCA though, as you and RC have done a great job in making the best of whatever PR gives the CCC series... which ain't much. Not saying Bremerton doesn't have its own issues that I don't know about, but it seems at least they appreciate the racers a little more, and go further to assure a better time for our event.
Jason
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Joined: Nov 2001
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From: LaConner WA
I probably worded my previous post a little too harshly. I'm not going to let NW fbody down or abandon our march towards another 1st place trophy. I guess it just grates on me a little ( a bunch ) that after swapping days with people at work so I can go, making a 5 hr round trip, spending at least $100 on fuel/fee's/food etc I don't have half as much fun as Bremerton. If they even tried a little bit the CCC races could be completed by 7:00 pm no problem. Waiting hrs on end to run feels like a slap in the face to me ? Of course I do have fun out there with you guys, it's just that I can see how it could be SO much more fun for us is they'd just pull their heads out
Everyone makes good points here. Which leads me to agree with Mr Salia. Finish what we started. Not sure I can make the race on the 12th, but I won't rule it out. I will for sure go to the dbl pts races if I can.
As for rules & such, my TA is consistent, so I dial what I think it will run & that servers me well. My wifes GTO however is not consistent, so I dial what I know it will run & let off if I am in front (aka sand bagging). This year I drive my car, next year I hope to trailer it. So you can see I am guilty of all these things I brought up. I was merely trying to make the point that from one perspective or another, we all do things that other people don't agree with. Myself included. But it's all legal.
So I wasn't trying to ruffle feathers, just trying to drive home the point that any rule changes must be well thought out. We want this to be fun, as fair as possible, and yet as open as we can make it so that most everyone can compete. Since most of us can't afford to build a "real race car", this is our only venue.
As for rules & such, my TA is consistent, so I dial what I think it will run & that servers me well. My wifes GTO however is not consistent, so I dial what I know it will run & let off if I am in front (aka sand bagging). This year I drive my car, next year I hope to trailer it. So you can see I am guilty of all these things I brought up. I was merely trying to make the point that from one perspective or another, we all do things that other people don't agree with. Myself included. But it's all legal.
So I wasn't trying to ruffle feathers, just trying to drive home the point that any rule changes must be well thought out. We want this to be fun, as fair as possible, and yet as open as we can make it so that most everyone can compete. Since most of us can't afford to build a "real race car", this is our only venue.
TECH Veteran
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From: Lynnwood, WA (North of Seattle)
Personally I have no issue with cars being trailered since so few people live "close" to the track......between that, the tire changing issues, potential for breakage, etc, I see no reason why trailering shouldn't be allowed, so long as the car meets the general spirit of the rules......Just my humble $.02
10 Second Club
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,491
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From: norfolk va
First I have always said pacific sucks, there track prep on fri night always sucks.
Two-ccc races are just that car club races. I understand that they are for evryday guys not race car drivers or guys the have all the toys, But untill you have someone that inforces the rules with a passion you will always have the set up bracket cars.
Most of those cars down there have dlay boxes and throttle stops, and evry other type delay box you can name.
I used to tralior my car but most of you guys would call mine a full out race car, I don't think that should have anything to do with who can race in the series.
Oh yhea steph could i get a nw f-body sticker......please.
Two-ccc races are just that car club races. I understand that they are for evryday guys not race car drivers or guys the have all the toys, But untill you have someone that inforces the rules with a passion you will always have the set up bracket cars.
Most of those cars down there have dlay boxes and throttle stops, and evry other type delay box you can name.
I used to tralior my car but most of you guys would call mine a full out race car, I don't think that should have anything to do with who can race in the series.
Oh yhea steph could i get a nw f-body sticker......please.
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Jun 2005
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Sounds like people just want to be treated with a little dignity and respect at the track and they like the CCC the way it is.
At this point, there aren't so many racecars that the CCC competition is just another bracket racing night, but the competition seems to be moving in that direction.
At this point, there aren't so many racecars that the CCC competition is just another bracket racing night, but the competition seems to be moving in that direction.
Last edited by esoteric; Aug 1, 2005 at 01:42 PM.
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Joined: Jun 2005
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Originally Posted by WAHUSKER
Everyone makes good points here. Which leads me to agree with Mr Salia. Finish what we started. Not sure I can make the race on the 12th, but I won't rule it out. I will for sure go to the dbl pts races if I can.
As for rules & such, my TA is consistent, so I dial what I think it will run & that servers me well. My wifes GTO however is not consistent, so I dial what I know it will run & let off if I am in front (aka sand bagging). This year I drive my car, next year I hope to trailer it. So you can see I am guilty of all these things I brought up. I was merely trying to make the point that from one perspective or another, we all do things that other people don't agree with. Myself included. But it's all legal.
So I wasn't trying to ruffle feathers, just trying to drive home the point that any rule changes must be well thought out. We want this to be fun, as fair as possible, and yet as open as we can make it so that most everyone can compete. Since most of us can't afford to build a "real race car", this is our only venue.
As for rules & such, my TA is consistent, so I dial what I think it will run & that servers me well. My wifes GTO however is not consistent, so I dial what I know it will run & let off if I am in front (aka sand bagging). This year I drive my car, next year I hope to trailer it. So you can see I am guilty of all these things I brought up. I was merely trying to make the point that from one perspective or another, we all do things that other people don't agree with. Myself included. But it's all legal.
So I wasn't trying to ruffle feathers, just trying to drive home the point that any rule changes must be well thought out. We want this to be fun, as fair as possible, and yet as open as we can make it so that most everyone can compete. Since most of us can't afford to build a "real race car", this is our only venue.
Let me put things a little differently: I think the CCC should be distinct from the Satruday night bracket racing night. It is different now, and I like that difference, but the CCC seems to be evolving in the direction of the fully committed bracket racers with dedicated cars (for lack of a better way to put it). Do we want to do nothing and see what happens, or do we want to address the sitution in an effort to maintain the distinction? I agree, we don't want to exclude a lot of people, but I see the CCC as a way to attract people to drag racing. They can then go on to competitive bracket racing or stay partially committed -as I am.