View Poll Results: Sponsor the Snohish Car Show?
Yes
7
43.75%
No
9
56.25%
Voters: 16. You may not vote on this poll
Snohomish Car Show - Yes or No
08-09-2005, 06:46 PM
#21
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Originally Posted by MrPongoSS
Keep that in mind. You just may as well donate that money and Puppet Show Pete wins it. There are no guarantees with that. I stand by what I said earlier.... it is not worth it and it kinda takes the integrity out of voting at car shows if everyone loads the ballots for one car, regardless of the situation. I would also like to know that people voted for my car because they felt that it deserved it, not because everyone got together and said that they would do that.
This is your guy's money and you do what you feel is in your best interests with it. I don't know all the ins and outs of the situation, but from what I understand and read so far, I still say hang on to the cash and skip the show.
This is your guy's money and you do what you feel is in your best interests with it. I don't know all the ins and outs of the situation, but from what I understand and read so far, I still say hang on to the cash and skip the show.
$300 is a lot of Money to spend on a place where it sounds like we are not wanted at.
Plus after reading the fine Print in the entry form:
Vending:
Sales from Car Display entry Vehicles are Prohibited..
Then there's:
Information Distribution from entry Vehicles:
Paper information only approved if participant pays an additional $25.00 clean up fee. Non compliance of any Car Display rules may result in your removal from Display.
So there goes any Sales that Tranzor might have wanted to sell with his Amsoil products. Unless they let us have a booth for the $300 Trophy fee.
So you can't sell anything and you have to pay to hand out fliers... I'm not sure if it would even be worth it, would it?
08-09-2005, 06:50 PM
#22
Ohhh... good point there, Steph. Thanks for pointing out the fact that we can't sell anything at all from our cars or even distribute flyers without an extra $25. I think that anyone sponsoring a trophy should be allowed to at LEAST pass out flyers without getting dinged for an extra cost.
08-09-2005, 07:16 PM
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Something else to add to this... you have to keep in mind that there are others that will show up to the show and will pay their registration fee. Everyone getting together and voting for one car to takes away those other peoples' rights to have their car judged fairly and to be able to compete. That is just not right. Also, if you decide to vote on a car from within the group, someone else's pride will get hurt, regardless of the situation, and really, how can that person honestly say that they won that trophy fair and square?
I understand what you guys' are trying to do and your hearts are definatly in the right place, but there are other ways of going around about this. Like Steph said, why pay the money to enter a show and donate even more money to a show that really doesn't want the newer cars there anyway? Maybe by not doanting and explaining the reasons why might just speak more volumes than just loading the ballots to try to show how newer cars should be accepted at cars shows. They might not even get the hint about that either.
This might make me unpopular here, but this is how I feel and if I found out that this went on at a show that I had attended, I would be EXTREMELY pissed off, to say the least, regardless of the intentions. It is just not the right thing to do.
I understand what you guys' are trying to do and your hearts are definatly in the right place, but there are other ways of going around about this. Like Steph said, why pay the money to enter a show and donate even more money to a show that really doesn't want the newer cars there anyway? Maybe by not doanting and explaining the reasons why might just speak more volumes than just loading the ballots to try to show how newer cars should be accepted at cars shows. They might not even get the hint about that either.
This might make me unpopular here, but this is how I feel and if I found out that this went on at a show that I had attended, I would be EXTREMELY pissed off, to say the least, regardless of the intentions. It is just not the right thing to do.
08-09-2005, 08:05 PM
#24
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These are all good points.
Would it not be better to just say "let's bag it" on this show and start thinking about one next year ... like Kirkland Legends or something like that. The Legends people were very welcoming and helpful, there were lots of vender awards and people handing out flyers (I am not sure if they paid an extra "clean up" fee to do so but they were there). Both are exactly what we were looking for at the start of this whole idea.
It is not really giving up, Mark, just pointing the sights at a new target.
Would it not be better to just say "let's bag it" on this show and start thinking about one next year ... like Kirkland Legends or something like that. The Legends people were very welcoming and helpful, there were lots of vender awards and people handing out flyers (I am not sure if they paid an extra "clean up" fee to do so but they were there). Both are exactly what we were looking for at the start of this whole idea.
It is not really giving up, Mark, just pointing the sights at a new target.
08-09-2005, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by WAHUSKER
You make good points Prongo but.....last year we had Todds car, mine, Erics, both Jasons, Ryans, Dougs & Steves cars there. Between us we won nothing. Not one of the 3 trophies. I know an old car, that was dirty & didn't have the hood open won the class. Not sure who took the other 2 trophies. But you see where I am going. They won because their friends voted for their cars. NOT because they were the best in the class.
Todds car won 1st place in the Seattle AND Portland rod shows. Telll me anything there could or should beat him. tick tick tick The answer is no. Not trying to start a war. I understand what you are saying, and normally I would agree. But I view this as a mission to 1) promote our members businesses, and 2) get us into the circle.
I guess the question is, should we even try? It's not in my character to quit. We have some very nice cars in this group & I want to see us get some recognition. Maybe this is the wrong direction.....
Todds car won 1st place in the Seattle AND Portland rod shows. Telll me anything there could or should beat him. tick tick tick The answer is no. Not trying to start a war. I understand what you are saying, and normally I would agree. But I view this as a mission to 1) promote our members businesses, and 2) get us into the circle.
I guess the question is, should we even try? It's not in my character to quit. We have some very nice cars in this group & I want to see us get some recognition. Maybe this is the wrong direction.....
1) What happened if somehow the show committee finds out that you guys had planned on making sure one car would win the class by loading the ballots? Unlikely, but it could happen. This is a public forum. I am sure that they won't be willing to deal with you ever again, regardless of your intentions, because you did a dishonest act to prove that point. Where is your stock among car shows or reputation then? Loading the ballots in one car's favor is cheating, no matter how you slice it up or the good intentions behind it.
2) Why promote everyone's business at a place that don't want you there? And, how would you be helping those businesses if you take away honesty and integrity by loading the ballots?
3) We have spent an entire spring and summer here bitching about this car show and that car show and how there was something afoot, including Puppet Show Pete's game. All you are doing is the same thing that is going on at those other shows. Yeah, there have been times where is lesser deserving car won and there was something afoot to make sure that car won, but by doing this, all you are doing is sinking to those levels.
Everyone here is an intellegent adult and there are other ways to go about this. I'm sure we can find another solution. Also, keep in mind that this is just one battle here. You can't win the war if you risk burning your bridges on just one battle. It is not worth ruining reputations.
I am on a soapbox here, but I am just playing Devil's Advocate.
08-09-2005, 08:56 PM
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Well, there are certainly other shows that want us. Legends, Monore, All Chevy Show to name a few. I believe I pointed out the $25 fees the first time we talked about this show. Coupled with the "no booth" ruole, those are a major source of irritation! The main driving force here was to get Ellis & Jason some press. And this kinda squashes that idea. So it's fine with me if we bag this.
Maybe what we should do is talk to the Monroe Show folks & see what we can all come up with. The guy has asked me for ideas & on-going help / participation.....maybe it's time our club got involved with it's own show.
Maybe what we should do is talk to the Monroe Show folks & see what we can all come up with. The guy has asked me for ideas & on-going help / participation.....maybe it's time our club got involved with it's own show.
08-09-2005, 09:11 PM
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I believe our intentions of becoming a sponsor is. 
1. Create a class for 90 and up muscle cars.
2. Create awareness for this class.
3. Help promote businesses that modifiy modern muscle cars.
4. We do not intend to stuff ballots, but we do want to make our vote counts. The intention is to judge the class, discuss what we thought were the best cars and vote for what we as a group thought was the best 90's muscle car, I don't believe anyone said the goal was to have one of our cars win, I guess I can see how you could read it that way but that is not the goal. It is an open ballot show and Pete may very well win that just the way it goes. By sponsoring a class at a few of the big shows, Colby, Kirkland and this show we can bring awareness to the modern muscle car and hopefully bring some great cars out of the garage or encourage others to mod their own ride.
At first I was tentative to enter my car in shows, does a new Camaro really belong in a show? I went to few shows and the answer is yes. I always get questions about our cars and usually have a few e-mails to send out about where I got this part etc. When old school guys come around they generally pretty impressed by the numbers. Besides the fees are generally going to charity so the more cars the better.
1. Create a class for 90 and up muscle cars.
2. Create awareness for this class.
3. Help promote businesses that modifiy modern muscle cars.
4. We do not intend to stuff ballots, but we do want to make our vote counts. The intention is to judge the class, discuss what we thought were the best cars and vote for what we as a group thought was the best 90's muscle car, I don't believe anyone said the goal was to have one of our cars win, I guess I can see how you could read it that way but that is not the goal. It is an open ballot show and Pete may very well win that just the way it goes. By sponsoring a class at a few of the big shows, Colby, Kirkland and this show we can bring awareness to the modern muscle car and hopefully bring some great cars out of the garage or encourage others to mod their own ride.
At first I was tentative to enter my car in shows, does a new Camaro really belong in a show? I went to few shows and the answer is yes. I always get questions about our cars and usually have a few e-mails to send out about where I got this part etc. When old school guys come around they generally pretty impressed by the numbers. Besides the fees are generally going to charity so the more cars the better.
08-09-2005, 09:41 PM
#28
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Originally Posted by Steve Goodwin
I believe our intentions of becoming a sponsor is.
1. Create a class for 90 and up muscle cars.
2. Create awareness for this class.
3. Help promote businesses that modifiy modern muscle cars.
4. We do not intend to stuff ballots, but we do want to make our vote counts. The intention is to judge the class, discuss what we thought were the best cars and vote for what we as a group thought was the best 90's muscle car, I don't believe anyone said the goal was to have one of our cars win, I guess I can see how you could read it that way but that is not the goal. It is an open ballot show and Pete may very well win that just the way it goes. By sponsoring a class at a few of the big shows, Colby, Kirkland and this show we can bring awareness to the modern muscle car and hopefully bring some great cars out of the garage or encourage others to mod their own ride.
At first I was tentative to enter my car in shows, does a new Camaro really belong in a show? I went to few shows and the answer is yes. I always get questions about our cars and usually have a few e-mails to send out about where I got this part etc. When old school guys come around they generally pretty impressed by the numbers. Besides the fees are generally going to charity so the more cars the better.
1. Create a class for 90 and up muscle cars.
2. Create awareness for this class.
3. Help promote businesses that modifiy modern muscle cars.
4. We do not intend to stuff ballots, but we do want to make our vote counts. The intention is to judge the class, discuss what we thought were the best cars and vote for what we as a group thought was the best 90's muscle car, I don't believe anyone said the goal was to have one of our cars win, I guess I can see how you could read it that way but that is not the goal. It is an open ballot show and Pete may very well win that just the way it goes. By sponsoring a class at a few of the big shows, Colby, Kirkland and this show we can bring awareness to the modern muscle car and hopefully bring some great cars out of the garage or encourage others to mod their own ride.
At first I was tentative to enter my car in shows, does a new Camaro really belong in a show? I went to few shows and the answer is yes. I always get questions about our cars and usually have a few e-mails to send out about where I got this part etc. When old school guys come around they generally pretty impressed by the numbers. Besides the fees are generally going to charity so the more cars the better.
There will come a day when our cars will be wecomed with open arms at most every car show... just give it time.
08-09-2005, 09:54 PM
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I whole heartedly agree with Steve. This i believe is the objective. I am very proud to show my car wherever and whenever. If our cars can be shown at the Seattle roadster show they should be welcomed everywhere. And I will tell you that two of the cars that won at the Snohomish show last year were an 80's Lincoln continental and a "04" SSR. There was a whole group of these Lincolns there and they seemed to know alot of people there. The SSR was parked right up front so everone got to see it. I don't know if these factors made a difference, But there were much nicer cars that should have won these trophies.
08-09-2005, 09:58 PM
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The voting is done by the sponsors for this show. The Colby show is done the same way. The bias is shown when nondeserving cars win trophies because they are friends of the sponsor. What i believe is being said here is that if we do sponsor a trophy we should pick from the best cars, and not just because it is someone that we know.
08-10-2005, 07:44 AM
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I thought the Snohomish Show was voted on by the sponsors. But alas it's the participants in this one, unlike the Colby Show. And I too agree with what Steve said, that was the objective here. Not neccesarily to win a trophy, but to get exposure & acceptance. There are a lot of really nice newer cars that are show-worthy. I can't recall that red 640rwhp 99 Saleen EVER winning a trophy. And he should!
I do remember slogging around that whole place voting on cars. 
My memory is fading fast!!! 
08-10-2005, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by WAHUSKER
Well, there are certainly other shows that want us. Legends, Monore, All Chevy Show to name a few. I believe I pointed out the $25 fees the first time we talked about this show. Coupled with the "no booth" ruole, those are a major source of irritation! The main driving force here was to get Ellis & Jason some press. And this kinda squashes that idea. So it's fine with me if we bag this.
Maybe what we should do is talk to the Monroe Show folks & see what we can all come up with. The guy has asked me for ideas & on-going help / participation.....maybe it's time our club got involved with it's own show.
Maybe what we should do is talk to the Monroe Show folks & see what we can all come up with. The guy has asked me for ideas & on-going help / participation.....maybe it's time our club got involved with it's own show.
I'm sure a lot more people would have shown up if they could have...and just the fact that they actually want us there makes a big difference...
08-10-2005, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Z ANGEL
Great idea Mark! The Monroe Show was a fun one, People just love driving around that track! I'm sure a lot more people would have shown up if they could have...and just the fact that they actually want us there makes a big difference...
I'm sure a lot more people would have shown up if they could have...and just the fact that they actually want us there makes a big difference...
08-10-2005, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by WAHUSKER
I thought the Snohomish Show was voted on by the sponsors. But alas it's the participants in this one, unlike the Colby Show. And I too agree with what Steve said, that was the objective here. Not neccesarily to win a trophy, but to get exposure & acceptance. There are a lot of really nice newer cars that are show-worthy. I can't recall that red 640rwhp 99 Saleen EVER winning a trophy. And he should!
08-10-2005, 05:10 PM
#37
Steve posted the sum of all the parts to "why/why not" very clearly. I had assumed that was what this was all about - and where 'ballot stuffing' got to be a mountain from a molehill is something I'm trying to figure out. All anyone need do is to post "PSP may win" and knees jerk so hard they hit the keyboard, entire point lost.
This is about people getting the chance to see all types of show cars, not just those that were rescued from barns or handed down through generations. The 90's/00's produced cars worth showing - every time someone wants to nudge you on the road proves that theory. Consider the stories of people who are totally clueless: a certain Taco Time situation and "it will cost more to look under the hood" or Mark pointing out the 99' red Saleen that is at least showing up and trying are good reasons to start participating in shows - win, lose or draw.
Waiting for show producers to be "friendly" to 4th gens is limiting the scope and reason to become part of a show - its isn't all or nothing but there is no point in being so picky only a select few will benefit from promoting a class so few know about and are slowly becoming aware of. Yesterday at the DOL I just caught sight of a white vert TA, show quality and yes! I wanted to know what was under the hood. It had that sleeper feeling but I don't see enough of them to know for sure. If that guy ever entered into a show I would find out in a hot second - that is what these shows are for.
As for the $25 trash fee...come on! I call bs on it being too much, no one can tell me they haven't dropped that much and have no idea where it went as in "I thought I had another twenty in here..." while rummaging in the wallet. Consider your return on that investment, many a good businessman would consider it a bargain and if you look at half the crap being sold at shows from slapped together booths and tons of flyers it must be true.
Yeah, I'm a little cranky today and the initial reactions to being a sponsor in this show has me wobbling on a soap box.
This is about people getting the chance to see all types of show cars, not just those that were rescued from barns or handed down through generations. The 90's/00's produced cars worth showing - every time someone wants to nudge you on the road proves that theory. Consider the stories of people who are totally clueless: a certain Taco Time situation and "it will cost more to look under the hood" or Mark pointing out the 99' red Saleen that is at least showing up and trying are good reasons to start participating in shows - win, lose or draw.
Waiting for show producers to be "friendly" to 4th gens is limiting the scope and reason to become part of a show - its isn't all or nothing but there is no point in being so picky only a select few will benefit from promoting a class so few know about and are slowly becoming aware of. Yesterday at the DOL I just caught sight of a white vert TA, show quality and yes! I wanted to know what was under the hood. It had that sleeper feeling but I don't see enough of them to know for sure. If that guy ever entered into a show I would find out in a hot second - that is what these shows are for.
As for the $25 trash fee...come on! I call bs on it being too much, no one can tell me they haven't dropped that much and have no idea where it went as in "I thought I had another twenty in here..." while rummaging in the wallet. Consider your return on that investment, many a good businessman would consider it a bargain and if you look at half the crap being sold at shows from slapped together booths and tons of flyers it must be true.
Yeah, I'm a little cranky today and the initial reactions to being a sponsor in this show has me wobbling on a soap box.
08-10-2005, 05:21 PM
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Nice to have you back on the soap box Gear Head hope you are healing well.
I am all for us becoming a sponsor of a Modern Muscle car class, where the sponsor gets to pick the winner. I have confidience that our group will pick a deserving car, if it is a participants or worse yet public pick lets pass.
As of the Snohomish show it is a great show lets go in force go early and have a great time.
I am all for us becoming a sponsor of a Modern Muscle car class, where the sponsor gets to pick the winner. I have confidience that our group will pick a deserving car, if it is a participants or worse yet public pick lets pass.
As of the Snohomish show it is a great show lets go in force go early and have a great time.
08-10-2005, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Goodwin
Nice to have you back on the soap box Gear Head hope you are healing well.
I am all for us becoming a sponsor of a Modern Muscle car class, where the sponsor gets to pick the winner. I have confidience that our group will pick a deserving car, if it is a participants or worse yet public pick lets pass.
As of the Snohomish show it is a great show lets go in force go early and have a great time.
I am all for us becoming a sponsor of a Modern Muscle car class, where the sponsor gets to pick the winner. I have confidience that our group will pick a deserving car, if it is a participants or worse yet public pick lets pass.
As of the Snohomish show it is a great show lets go in force go early and have a great time.
08-10-2005, 06:55 PM
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Hmmmm, a 50/50 split. What to do, what to do? I see a lot of interest in going to this show either way. So we should try to make a big showing. But I guess the only question left comes down to this:
Shall we send in the $300 for sponsoring the 80s & up class & then try to get our own 90s & up class for muscle cars next year?
While everyone is welcome to voice their opinion, I am most intersted in what the people that are paying the fees say. Ellis (Amy), Jason, Steve....what say you?
Shall we send in the $300 for sponsoring the 80s & up class & then try to get our own 90s & up class for muscle cars next year?
While everyone is welcome to voice their opinion, I am most intersted in what the people that are paying the fees say. Ellis (Amy), Jason, Steve....what say you?