Robert56

iTrader: (2)

Ok man, I'll butt out and shut up.
Robert

Edit: Wait a minute I am not going to shut up, as I feel I know what Iam talking about. You can be a smart azz all you want.
Run #2 358.57rwhp at 1:30
5 minutes later
Run #3 387.40rwhp at 1:35

now I see a gain of 28.83rwhp. I contend that minimal additional heat soak was seen, as the time was to short, and the spray would counter act anyway. What you have is a 28rwhp shot, period. As for the tire squat using up hp on the 3rd run only, someone please explain this to me.

You know I was trying to point some things out in good faith. If you don't have the capabiltie to have a mechanical debate on an issue, well that's your loss, as I am done with you.
Robert

00Vette

iTrader: (4)

Dude........this section of the forum is our family and Robert is just trying to help out with some stuff he knows quite abit about. He just wants to make sure your getting what you paid for and help you get faster. Your accomplishment of knocking 4 seconds off is crazy! I applaud you, but don't knock anyone for trying to help you out man.......

CHarris

iTrader: (5)

Not trying to be an ***... but theres no shortage of theories and beliefs as to what my "problem" is. Very few people have practical experience with this set up. I can tell you that I talked to the LPE guys on the phone today... their 700 hp twin turbo package really is closer to 750 hp and ONLY makes about 522 at the rear wheels.

Now, given the fact that the hp dropped from run 1 to run 2 suggests that the hp dropped again on run 3 "blower only." If one follows this, the limited data suggests that the N2O gave the heat soak lost hp back and then a little more. Now, I did not have a bottle heater so pressure was less than optimum. And I know my convertor is not in a good way these days either. But, all things considered, the data seems to make sense.

Robert56

iTrader: (2)

See my edit above.

But why do you explain this now and blow me off before. I am a schooled mechanic, degreed engineer and have been considered a master mechanic in my trade for over 30years. I don't like blowing my own whistle, but I can't think of the last time I was disrespected like this. Maybe I am blowing this out of proportion and need to go get some pain meds for my neck. Sorry no problem on this end.
Robert

Edit: Oh I forgot, I am not a turbo expert, but the current project (Vic Edelbrocks new yacht) I am working on is 2-16cly Detroit Desiels both running twin turbos. This is not my first set-up like this. If you would like to see Vic's old Yacht check the Victor E in the link.
Nordlund Boat

00Vette

iTrader: (4)

Sorry, but I LMAO when I saw this.........I know your in pain, but the timing and all was great.

CHarris

iTrader: (5)

Robert,
I understand you're trying to help and I think you understand that I'm frustrated.
This just isn't a combo that you can shoot from the hip on.

My combo is maxing out my MAF at 4700 rpm with 9 psi and seeing IAT's up to 160 degrees. It's been noted in GMHTP that the Radix IAT sensor location does not give accurate IAT's as it is located in the base. Actual Radix IAT's can be expected to be many degrees higher. Mine are probably in the 180-190 degree range. The intercooler is located in the base of the aluminum manifold so it is very prone to heat soak.

Now... knowing that I am moving more than 65lbs of air through my intake system... a 50 hp N2O hit is very small compared to that large volume of hot air. It cools it a bit... but not a great deal.

As to the hp loss... why do you believe that the 50 shot would not be susceptible to regular drivetrain loss? I don't follow that at all. I'm shooting it in the elbow before the blower.

Robert56

iTrader: (2)

Your drivetrain loss is going to be there whether you spray or not. Point is, n2o is measured at the rear wheels. what ever is going on it seems your not really getting a 50rwhp shot, that's all I am saying. Do you think that because you have a higher than normal drivetrain loss, that you can't up your shot? I would think that motor could handle it. you've got a beast for sure, though. I understand your point about collective heat sink. i would think that tuning for optimum power would be at it's normal average heat sink temp, then tune the shot from a known normal temp? what about a resistor on the Iat to trick into correct temp. This is done on the spray and some wiring schematics in my web. I am sure you guys are talking about a Speed Density tune to eliminate the Maf?
Robert

CHarris

iTrader: (5)

I understand that drivetrain loss will be there whether or not I spray. But the spray is still "driving" the drivetrain so it would also be susceptible to the drivtrain losses. The faster you spin it.... the more power it takes... the more loss. Once you get up to the 17,000 + rpm range the radix takes somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 hp just to drive it. At 12,000 rpm the power to turn it is much less. See where I'm coming from? (For others reading... this is why turbos kick so much more ***! They don't have the same hp loss off the top)

The highest N2O shot on a magnacharger that I've ever read of is a 65-75 hp shot. It's not the size of the shot... it's the total cylinder pressure that is the big question. How much can it take? What level is it at now? Who knows? By all accounts and guesses the LQ4 is good for 13 psi and maybe as much as 15 psi. But not many have ventured out there.

HitmanLSX

I was gonna say a lot of your drive train loss is probably those big heavy *** BFG All terrain's they're not light (there's a reason I don't work out anymore since I started at les schwab lol). And that sidewall flex scares me, I mean these aren't wrinkle wall drag tires after all.

Ryan K

iTrader: (11)

Robert, you're killing me. Maybe you need to go back and learn some more nitrous oxide theory. Nitrous has from its inception been rated by its thoretical out put which is SOLEY based on 2 simple things:

1 Bottle pressure
2 Orifice size

Of course MANY factors play into what the actual results are. Just because some companies rate thier jetting on RWHP dosen't mean they are correct. Alot of these companies say Oh look at our kits, we make more HP with the jets WE rate for XXXhp. Its all a game.

SO, if the company rated thier kits at fly wheel HP (Which btw, most do) and you figure in a constant Drivetrain loss of close to 30% Then its pretty damn close to 50hp.

Now I believe that Cory has other issues, but your Nitrous Theory is Out to lunch.

Also, its neglegent for you to say "it'll handle it" a 50RWHP addition to a stock motor thats already at near 550 fly wheel is pushing it over 600 at the fly. Lets see hom much longer yours takes it bofore it goes POP.

CHarris

iTrader: (5)

Here's a neat graph from the eaton website about hp required to drive the previous
m112 blower... the Radix is a MP112 but the data would be similar...


Making more power takes quite a bit more power.

Robert56

iTrader: (2)

Ok, I understand where your coming from. so basically you want a known safe shot regardless of what you end up at the rear wheels. Yea, you gotta watch that cylinder pressure,as I am going to being pushing it to the limits on my car.
I do know it can be a challenge to get things sorted out, but it seems your on your way.
Robert

Robert56

iTrader: (2)

Now see, i can take corrective criti. I think you incorrect about the flywheel HP rating, as NOS is about the only real company still jetting for it. NX and TNT rate at the rear wheels and most everyone uses a conversion sheet I set up for NOS to go to rear wheels (and each company uses a different bottle pressure). If you guys are using a crank rated shot, then yes your correct. my point was it wasn't 50 at the rear wheels, dose this make my n2o theroy void, I think not. I believe I said something to the effect of I think it should handle it to the rw, meaning it's up to you guys to make a final decission. because I didn't know enough about the total set-up. what brand kit are you guys using? That should put things to rest. I don't really think mine is going to go pop, because of the progressive nature of the triple stage. But if it does, then a LS7 will be going in to be sprayed. If you want to play, and can't pay, don't spray.
Robert

CHarris

iTrader: (5)

It was a 50 hp jetting set from NX on the truck.

NVME88GT

The sidewall wrinkle is normal for a truck tire like that on the dyno. Parrish's truck does it too. It's just because the sidewall is so large and the truck is strapped down. Good numbers.

CHarris

iTrader: (5)

I just figured out the big issue on what seem to be low numbers... the TB only opened to 78% according to the datalogger. It somehow entered a TCS mode that was not known to be possible.

Now I can finally explain why shifting the truck at 6200-6300 rpm on track is faster than shifting at a lower RPM. This was troubling us earlier because we were seeing the power roll off at about 5000 rpm. That just doesn't jive with the real world drag results! I don't know if I can get around that TCS issue or not. I guess I'll have to call LPE again to see what they did...

It is interesting that the TB only opening to 78% still maxed the MAF reading at 4700 rpm. I don't know what's up with that

Robert56

iTrader: (2)

NX rates their kits at the rear wheels at 1050psi. But as you guys have pointed out, this really dosen't work as an absolute on your set-up. Now if Ryan thinks it isn't a good idea to jet it to the rear wheels, I would now agree with this. Just because I am jetting for 550rwhp on a stock long block..., it is different for you guys with all ready high clyinder pressures. Maybe we can set up a triple stage for the Radix and..........
Robert

jimbob

iTrader: (4)

OOPS.......

Now that explains why part of the first run had way more power on the graph then something pulled it back....then after that

TwoFast4Lv

iTrader: (8)

NOW that explains every thing we we seeing and hearing! The way it just layed over. The black puff's and such. See what you can find out man!

BTW Jim's car was only pushing 415Gps and the injectors were 12.9Pw