Here is someone telling me different!

"Well, the phrase "There's a sucker born every minute" comes to mind. A lower temp thermostat only determines the minimum temp of a warmed up cooling system, i.e. with a 180 deg stat, once warmed up, your system will not drop below about 180. The max temp is determined by radiator capacity and fan settings. There is a need for upgraded radiators, but only when doing something out of the ordinary, like road racing or hi HP applications, like strokers or supercharging. Then, the added cooling capacity is needed. The stock radiator is entirely adequate for the stock car, under almost any condition. Feel free to cool your engine down as far as you want (it's your car,) but the LS1 was designed to run best (with clearances to match) at 190-210 deg. While cooler intake air is good, running a cold engine is not."

and another

"Quote:
Originally Posted by 00'Vette
Well, the cooler the temps the better it is on the motor. Period!



Sorry, doesn't work that way. Engines are designed to run at a given temperature. Colder than that temperature and friction (and wear) goes up.


Quote:
Heat damages engines! I race my car mostly and occasionally drive it to work. I want to ensure the temps stay around 190-200 all the time.


You said your engine was only getting hot sitting in traffic. The fans won't come on until the temps get over 226 (IIRC). BTW, a "upgraded" (colder?) t'stat won't help at all in this case: the stock t'stat has been fully open for some time before the coolant got to 226.


Quote:
Why would the aftermarket offer upgraded radiators and thermostats if there wasn't a need for them?


If by racing you mean drag racing, then an upgraded radiator is a waste of money. Ditto for autocross. If you are tracking your car (20 minutes at high revs and WOT), that's when you need an upgraded radiator.

BTW, even for autocross I put in an external oil cooler, since I was seeing oil temps pushing 290+. Now I've got those temps under control, BUT I have a 180 degree oil t'stat, plus a cover I put over the cooler when I'm not racing, all to keep the oil temps above 190 (which is the design point for the LSx engines).

HTH, and have a good one,
Mike"

 

Not an expert but can understand it helping to be at a certain temp for best use of motor.

 

In this neck of the woods I wouldn't install anything lower than a 180* tstat in an LSx based motor. I have a napa tstat in mine and it opens at 186, my fans come on at 195-200 and my motor never goes over 205 ish, even sitting in traffic with the ac on max in that 100 degree heat we had about a month ago. So the cooling system is adequate for me, for my mostly stock car, for now that is. After modding I'm going to get a larger radiator, but keep the settings I have now as is.

These are designed to run 190-210 like one of the quotes says. I personally don't like anything above 205 so that's my limit.

My stock fans never came on until I got my predator and then HPTuner.

 

But is it true that the t-stat won't let the coolant temp go any lower than that degree t-stat? for example, if I bought a 160degree thermostat, that my water temps wouldn't fall below that temp?

 

you are correct sir!

 

I run a 160° T-Stat so that my motor will run in the 170° - 180° range because the motor makes more power here. A motor isn't "designed" to run a 190°-210°.....this just happens to be a better heat range solely for emissions purposes to fire off the CATs.

 

Plus anything colder than 160 & these alum heads don't work right....

Mark

 

That's what I was thinking.

220* is way too hot IMO, but the Vette guys over at corvetteforum tell me that it should be that way and I shouldn't fix what isn't broken. Basically that I shouldn't make it run cooler.......

Between you and me, that kind of temp scares me. I'm CONSTANTLY checking my oil and water temps.

 

Don't listen to the show queens over there at the vette forums. You could drop the temps 30* and be fine. I like to run mine right around 190 ish.

I try to keep my Chevelle's temp right around 175-180.

 

I feel good at or below 195*! And I'm going to do all I can to get it there too.

I speak strictly from experience, but I am not a fan of the typical Corvette owner. And I don't give a **** who I offend.

Most Vette owners are know it all old fart ******** who like only show and shine cars. I have met a hand full of Vette owners who like to drive there car like its meant too, and truly are a fan of the car.

LS1tech is the site I feel most at home with.

Don't get me wrong though, there are quite a few pompus asses on this site too. Just take a good look at Ellis.

Just had to take a quick shot at you buddy!

 

The thing is, if you go below about 180/185 then burning off condensation in the oil becomes a problem. The vettes have a 195* and if you reset fans you can keep temps there at worse conditions. This is where mine is set and i never see above 195* even with air on. You just need to reset the on/off for both fans. Going to a 180* stat is also ok, imo, fans need to be reset there also.
Robert

 

This winter I think I'm going to do just that! Go with the 180* or 178* thermostat and have Ellis or TJ set my fans like you said.

I may even incorperate a manual fan overide switch so I can turn the fans on when I want.

 

From Vinci Hi-Performance web site (tech tips).

"Proper Coolant Temperature and Camshaft Life!

Have you ever tried to find what proper coolant temperature is for most automotive engines? There are a lot of people who think they know, but it is difficult to find specifics, even in textbooks. We know we want the intake air to be as cold as possible (for best power) because cold air is denser (there are more oxygen atoms per cubic foot). The coolant temperature, however, is a different matter. The internal combustion engine changes chemical energy stored in gasoline into heat energy that is focused on the piston tops. If the cylinder heads and engine block are too cold, they will absorb much of the combustion heat before it can be used to push the piston down the cylinder. If the engine gets too hot, engine lubricants can break down, as well as overheating of the intake charge can lead to detonation, etc.

It turns out that coolant (usually a 50/50 mixture of coolant and water) has some fantastic properties that are ideal for use in engines. With a properly pressurized cooling system, coolant will not freeze until –30°F, and it won’t boil until +270°F (new oils don’t start to break down until well over 270°F). With these characteristics, engine designers have decided that engines should operate at approximately 210-215°F. Why, you ask? Well, it has to do with operating the engine at a high enough temperature to boil water out of the oil after the engine is cold started. If you have dew on the grass, it is certain that you have water in your oil, as the crankcase is open to atmospheric pressure! You can either remove the water by draining it out the bottom of the oil pan (remember the oil floats on water) or run the engine long enough and hot enough to boil the water out of the lubrication system. Years ago, coolants weren’t as sophisticated and engines were run at 165-180F, but the oil was changed every 1000 miles or so. That’s why many old timers think engines should run at 165-180F. Have you ever noticed that Ford doesn’t put temperature marks on their gauges? They just mark C for cold and H for hot and write “normal” through the center. If you hook up a scan tool to a GM, you will often find that the gauge reads much lower than the coolant temp sensor. That is because they know most drivers don’t understand how hot an engine should run.

So what does this have to do with camshafts? Many enthusiasts erroneously think that the colder their engine runs the better! If they are not running the engine hot enough to boil the water out of the oil, the oil becomes contaminated and the lifter/cam lobe interface is the highest load point in the engine. Engines running too cool can contribute significantly to camshaft and lifter failure. Think about it: What good does it do to use the most expensive synthetic oil and then run the engine so cold that it is contaminated by water vapor??!! Another point, piston manufacturers’ piston-to-wall clearance recommendations assume you will be running the fully warmed engine at 200°+F. Run the engine too cold, and you could see some scuffed pistons because the cylinders had not expanded enough to provide clearance.

If your engine will only run its best at the drag strip with the engine at 165°F, you probably have too cold of a spark plug heat range and you are probably jetted way too rich! If you keep the engine hot (not the intake charge), you will be using more of the heat energy in the gasoline to make power instead of just heating up your block. It does take “tuning know-how” to run an engine at 200-210°F, but you might be surprised how well and how long it runs when you do!! One final point - running a computer managed engine at 165°F compared to the factory 210°F will often cost you as much as 4 MPG. The reason for this is that the computer thinks that the engine is not off the “choke cycle” and it is still putting out a rich mixture! Check the science on this and don’t pay attention to the “old wives tales” of the past. Materials and lubricants are much better and different today than they were in the past!!"

 

You never got to meet Chuckles did ya?

 

Same here......

I went to a cruise inn when I first got my corvette and got mobbed by a vette club that was there too. They all wanted me to join there club, bla bla bla....

Uh, no thanks.....not into driving my vette to go golfing and wine tasting

 

Hey, have Ellis set your fans at the on/offs I gave ya. See if the 190/195 area suits ya. I believe at this temp you still burn off the h2o, and we change our oil every 3k anywho, so even lower would prob be fine.
Robert

 

That was a good read! Thank you!

 

So to make sure I understand the above post on reasoning of higher temps it is to help eliminate the water from the systems by boiling it out? I do know that the sensor on the dash is often 10 - 15* lower than what the actual car is running at cause I have seen it with my GTP. With the GTP I run a 180 stat and have the temps set at what Robert suggests but I need to help keep the engine cool as much as possible with the S/C constantly blowing in there, I am sure this is a little bit different for some of the cars that run with the aluminum parts though because if there is to rapid/drastic of a heat change things can go bad!

Now that read is going to have me paranoid of water in my oil from staying out late when the dew is starting to gather before it gets really cold!

 

Speaking for the typical corvette owners, I run a 160 stat in the summer and 195 in the winter, easy to change. I run my car harder in the summer between autocross, some drags and general running the **** out of it. I change my oil every 3k with synthetic I'm not concerned with H2o burn off. I'm going to reset fans, when I do H/C tune. My motor runs at 175-180 with 160 stat in summer.

 

The above read makes some very good points, however it also seems to make a few incorrect assumptions

1. It seems to be saying that coolant temp and oil temp are one and the same and move completely in step with each other. This is absolutely untrue. With a 165f t-stat in my T/A oil temp would reach ( before I installed an oil cooler ) 280 within 20 minutes of a lapping session with a less than a 100f starting point. If my oil was already warmed up then 300f was ALWAYS reached within a 20 min. session. This is with a coolant temp that never broke 200f

Running down the freeway at 75-80 mph my coolant temps would run between 175-185. My oil always ran about 200.

Also at a typical stop light my oil would gain 5 -10f sitting there idling even though my coolant temp wouldn't go above cooling fan turn on point. If I pulled up with an oil temp of 200 it would reach 210 within the span of the light going green again. If I was hitting light after light it would go as high as 240-250f just idling around. How many of you never sit at a stop light ? Have you ever noticed that Ford oil pressure gauges snap to 60 psi as soon as actual oil pressure hits 6 psi ? And that it snaps to zero once actual oil pressure drops to 5 psi ? ford does alot of weird things and they're all designed to save money. It's true that Ford makes this HUGE normal range. It is not true that temps above fan kick on points should be considered normal. Ford just doesn't want you costing them any $$$ unless the vehicle has nearly stranded you. In short it's a bean counters cost saving feature and nothing more.

True. but a cooler running engine will allow you to run more timing, more compression etc before detonation and will generally make more power because the air entering the engine is heated up less. I'm sure the LS1 with it's plastic intake manifold suffers less from this than the old school engines with aluminum and steel manifolds, but I'm sure the affect is still there. All true in the general sense, but many cooler running engines show no ill affects at all. This is because the cam wear issues are oil quality issues, not temperature issues. keep your oil clean I have to believe that you were thinking of something else. piston clearances are greatest at cold temp and tighten up with heat. The cylinder is not what expands ( much ) it's the pistons, hence hotter = tighter