RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

After all these years, I see that bad info still makes its way into this thread and topic.

1) Most '98 cars are not affected. The change did not take place until the tail end of this model year. Only cars built in 05/98 or later are affected - so that's only the last three months of '98 production. Some of the May '98 cars don't have the issue, that seems to be the transition month.

2) It's not a "fact" that the glue was changed. Actually, this has never been confirmed by any reliable/solid source, to the best of my knowledge, to date. The main factor in this issue seems to be the omission of proper primer on the underside of the panel where the glue was applied on the '99+ (and very late '98) examples. The factory TSB calls for an epoxy primer to be used on the entire underside of the replacement panel to correct this issue. The adhesives approved for use don't seem to be anything different than what was originally used.

3) ALL '99+, and some very late '98, models are affected. All of them, unless they are convertibles. Cars with darker colored roofs (which includes just about all V8 Camaros) are affected most severely, more so in climates with a lot of intense sun and heat. Lighter colors, especially white, may not present the issue, or at least not as rapidly/severely, even when exposed to intense sun. Some may be worse than others depending on heat/sun exposure over their lifespan.

None of this is new information. No '93-'97 cars are affected at all, and the majority of '98 cars are not affected either. However, all '99+ cars are subject to this condition.

SparkyJJO

iTrader: (11)

But... can't I just vinyl wrap it?

TechCam97

iTrader: (5)

johnfin

The Car I saw in the junk yard was an 02 and was white. Had been in the yard for a while and no bubbles. I was thinking of pulling it but then remembered the article and 99+ cars.

TheNutDriver

iTrader: (1)

Is this the issue starting on mine?

Seems different to the usual symptoms I'm seeing on this thread. No bubbles yet just this odd paint line.

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

I had mine done in carbon fiber. Looks better than factory and was cheap!

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

The video is too dark to see much on my screen but the issue doesn't actually start off as bubbles, the bubbles come later. The very first thing is wavy lines or ripples under the paint, though some don't notice this more minor condition until the bubbles start to appear.

Regardless, you have a 2001 so the bubbles will eventually come if you expose the roof to enough heat/sunlight.

I don't care for the carbon fiber look at all myself but, for those who like it and want more than just a wrap, I think 6LE still sells a CF version of the replacement panel.

TechCam97

iTrader: (5)

Looks like it to me. That's how it started on my old 2001 T/A. Mine went from being kept in a shop for it's whole life to sitting in my driveway for a year and then back into my garage when I moved to a new house. That year out in the Texas sun really did the trick though and the bubbles started showing up with a fierceness.

TheNutDriver

iTrader: (1)

Dang LOL.

Ah well best start saving for a 6LE panel then

TransAmWS.6

Took my car to a car show today, was extremely hot out, sunny and probably close to 100 degrees. When I went to leave my sail panel had a TON of bubbles in it everywhere and I saw some glue seeping out in some spots. It looked like it was cooking in the sun. When I got it home back in the garage all the bubbles were gone but I see that glue everywhere.

Should I start looking into replacing the panel? Car is a garage queen so I'm surprised that it's affected.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

No surprise here; being a garage queen only delays the issue but can't avoid it entirely unless the car is never in the heat or sun. Some owners have reported bubble flare-ups even when the car hasn't left the garage (obviously in very hot climates during hot months.) I've seen several with this condition at mileages as low as 10-30k, normally the product of hot summer sun at car shows even though it otherwise lives in the garage like yours.

Absolutely.

Unfortunately, there is no other fix. It will present this issue, with increasing degrees of severity, every time it's exposed to intense heat or direct sunlight going forward. Eventually, the waves and ripples will not go back down even once it cools.

TransAmWS.6

Thanks RPM, as always I appreciate your input. What would you recommend doing as far as replacement?

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Wish I had better news to give you though. This issue is a real hassle.

The only options are a used panel (from a '93 thru mid-'98, but if getting one from a '98 make sure it was built before 05/98), or a reproduction panel from 6LE (as far as I know, 6LE is the only source for reproduction panels.) You might be able to find an NOS GM panel somewhere, but I haven't seen one pop up for sale in a long time. GM discontinued them long ago.

I've seen a few post-install pics of the 6LE panels that didn't look as good as OEM fitment, but that could easily be a product of poor install rather than a poor panel (as an example, I had my 2002 car done at a GM dealer with a GM panel back in 2008 and even that factory panel didn't fit perfectly because the dealer body shop didn't get it positioned "just right".) I've also seen some 6LE panels that fit perfectly, probably because the installer was very careful to do it right. In other words, the repro panels generally seem to be good pieces but the finished product will only be as good as the installer.

judgeman6970

Rpm, I finally got myself another f-body, an '02 CETA. Amazingly, the door panels are perfect, but the black sail panel is a real eyesore. Do you have any helpful hints about picking up a used one? Do the junkyards usually cut the steel roof off & sell the whole thing, or do I need to shop local & try to carefully remove the part myself? Trying to keep my costs to a minimum.

TransAmWS.6

Yeah, this seems like nothing but a huge hassle. Sounds like getting a 6LE panel and finding a top notch body/paint shop is my best bet. Really not wanting to put anything used on this car. I'm sure it won't be cheap if it's being done at show car levels of detail either. This issue of course decides to present itself when I start looking at cams too

Thanks again for your advice!

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

If you check out the first post in this thread (edited by me long ago), you'll find some helpful links for DIY step-by-step instructions. I think some of these write-ups include the removal process as well. Depending on the source, you might have to remove it yourself (wire saw for just the panel) or you might find a junk yard that will take it off for you (but usually they will cut off the whole roof, not carefully remove only the panel.) Some say that it's easier to remove the panel while the metal understructure is still attached to the car, some prefer to have the whole roof cut off at the yard and then remove the panel from it at home.

Glad to help, but again hate to be the bearer of bad news. I think the 6LE panels are usually about $500-650 (for a t-top panel) depending on whether there is a sale/GP or not, and then shipping was something like $100-150 I think. Install costs will obviously range depending on the shop but, yeah, if you want a top notch shop that works on competition level show vehicles (I don't blame you, I'd want that too for a really nice garage queen) then it's not going to be cheap. I think $200-300 is about as cheap as I've seen for labor (R&R plus paint, again for a t-top car), but I doubt those were top tier specialty shops.

If you want to do a new repro panel, you'll have to either plan for removing and saving (or buying new) the plastic corner pieces that cover the triangle indent at the forward lower portion of the panel on each side. I haven't checked in a while, but not too long ago you could still get these new from GM, they are held in place with adhesive so some people just reuse the originals. Here are the original part numbers for these if you want to check availability:

10240164 - Right
10240165 - Left

AnotherWs6

iTrader: (17)

This issue is suuuuch BS. GM should have changed every single one when the cars were new. So aggrevating. I've seen my roof bubble twice. My car is/has been a life long garage queen so I assumed I would be spared of this BS bubbling issue. Nope. Put it in the sun long enough in a hot enough day.....bubbles. No leaking yet and the bubbles disappear once the car cools off but I'm not naive enough to think it won't get worse. The day I see glue coming through my roof is likely the first day I literally cry about a car.

My dash I think will survive OK, the door panels scare the hell out of me. I can see where they are stressed, so I know exactly where they are gonna crack if they do. I suppose I should take them off and do the mod to prevent cracking before they do but I don't even have time to drive the car, really annoying that it needs so much time and money to stay nice when it just sits in the effin garage!

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Both the cracking door panels and bubbling roof seem to be the result of cost cutting/short cuts, neither of these were issues on mid-'98 or earlier 4th gens. In fact, you can see how GM employed ever increasing cost cutting as 4th gen production neared an end; more and more items were deleted or cheapened on the later cars. Besides the roof and door panels not being an issue on the earliest LS1 cars, there is also the following: The fender lip guard was dropped after '98, the A/C line brace bolted to the passenger side shock tower was dropped after '98, the hood insulator was dropped after '99, the extra door bottom weatherstrip was dropped after '98 or '99, the steering wheel control buttons for Firebird got cheaper starting in '99, the cloth interior fabric got cheaper for Camaro starting in 2000, the exterior window trim went from a durable glossy black item to a matte black piece that fades and cracks easily starting in 2001, and the rearview mirror became a cheaper piece starting in 2001. These are just off the top of my head, there are other items I'm sure I'm forgetting. So, while the cars got slightly quicker in the final years and had some powertrain improvements (though not every change in this regard was an improvement either, but that's a different conversation), most folks don't realize that the rest of the car was actually getting cheaper. I've owned all the years, except an '01, and bought them all brand new or from the original owners when they were still quite new, so I've had the chance to really compare and investigate the changes over the years.

FWIW, some of the GM dealers were able to get GM to pay for this under the 6 year/100k corrosion/rust-through warranty. This is how my dealer got it done on my '02 car, so it didn't cost me anything to repair. GM new about the issue as early as 2003 when they first stared issuing service bulletins concerning it. In those early days, many of us thought that it would mostly be a non-issue except for cars that were parked in full sun all day every day, but as time went on we discovered that this was not the case. I've been researching the issue myself since around that time. By some point in 2004-06, and after looking at many examples and getting build date and roof condition reports from many owners, it became clear that the production breaking point for this condition is actually May of '98 (which includes the last three months of '98 model year vehicles, not just the '99+ cars like the GM TSB states.)

Your dash should be fine if it's a garage queen, those don't seem to ever crack, regardless of model year, unless they are exposed to a lot of sun all the time or someone mishandles them. You can use a protectant on it, something like 303 Aerospace, to further protect it when it does see sun (such as any daytime driving, etc.)

JOHNNY59

iTrader: (398)

Here are two of the 93-5/98 oem take off panels I have painted and sold to members here on tech. Also do the door panel mod on your panels before they crack!

OhTwo

iTrader: (13)

That red one looks like the one you sold to me. No issues and don't expect any. The old panel started having bubbling issues after about 12 years so was replaced. My car is driven frequently but I'm the original owner and it has about 30,000 miles so hasn't seen a lot of "super" sun in Iowa.