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Haven’t posted on here in years but after reading & reading all these posts I figured well everything you read on the internet is not true! Lol just kidding.
Long story short I dropped off my 02 z28 this week to get some PDR done here at a local shop. Upon inspecting the dents, the owner asked me if I wanted to fix the bubbling roof. I of course said no, I’m going to find a replacement panel off and older model & do it that way. After going back & forth explaining to him that it’s the glue, he swore he knew exactly what to do to prevent the bubbling from happening again, no panel replacement was needed. He’s done them for many people & for over 12 years. I didn’t get into specifics on how he was going to tackle the problem but he told me if they come back he would not charge me a cent. So I thought why not, the roof already looks bad. Worst case scenario I’ll look for a panel 🤷♂️
He said it should be done next week & I’m very curious to see the results & longevity. Car is not a garage queen & I live in Deep South Texas where the temps reach over 100+ degrees daily so I’m sure I’ll see results faster than usual.
If not, then I can tell him I told you 😂
I will keep you all updated.
Last edited by Need-More-Boost; Sep 30, 2023 at 06:10 AM.
It would be great if there is a fix that didn't involve a new panel. Many have tried and failed, but I do wish you luck. Several "fixed" panels have lasted for a while, but I agree that yours should show signs of failure sooner than most based on your location and usage.
Again, good luck, I really do hope it works but I haven't encountered any long term success stories yet.
I contacted a long term friend where I live and way back when, well 10yrs ago, he worked part time at a body shop that "supposedly" used some sort of epoxy that sealed it then finished primer/paint. I could never confirm any of his story however and the conversation devolved into an argument based on what we all now here vs. his experience. Body shop was a restoration shop and not some Jimbob shop. Anyhow I wish I could get more information and at least some confirmation his process worked. Being a mechanical engineer that works with epoxies I very much doubt it worked but who knows. My hardtop doesn't look bad but it certainly could use replacing so I can stop worrying about it. I feel the whole replacement ride has passed me by however.
I contacted a long term friend where I live and way back when, well 10yrs ago, he worked part time at a body shop that "supposedly" used some sort of epoxy that sealed it then finished primer/paint. I could never confirm any of his story however and the conversation devolved into an argument based on what we all now here vs. his experience. Body shop was a restoration shop and not some Jimbob shop. Anyhow I wish I could get more information and at least some confirmation his process worked. Being a mechanical engineer that works with epoxies I very much doubt it worked but who knows. My hardtop doesn't look bad but it certainly could use replacing so I can stop worrying about it. I feel the whole replacement ride has passed me by however.
It seems that the only way an epoxy sealant or primer can prevent this issue is if it's applied on the underside of the panel, meaning between the adhesive and the panel, as a barrier to prevent the adhesive from ever actually touching the panel directly (like the factory did on the older models, and what is recommended in the GM TSB). Once the adhesive has saturated the panel, applying an epoxy to the top side never seems to work long term (probably because the panel is already compromised so, at that point, the only barrier between the adhesive and the top coat of paint is the epoxy - i.e. you are applying the epoxy to a compromised surface rather than a "clean" panel).
In the days before this was a known issue, lots of folks would just get the panel repainted (some under warranty, etc.) and I recall many of those "repairs" lasting for 6 months to a couple of years depending on exposure and location. But that was in a time when many of these cars were still daily drivers. If it's a garage queen, any sort of top-side-only repair might in fact last for several years if the car is mostly parked out of the sun. So it will be interesting to see what happens with Need-More-Boost's panel as his will see pretty much the most severe conditions that would be encountered.
Just my .02 cents! I wish you the best of luck! But there's no way it can work. The contamination is coming all the way from the underside, and you're trying to seal the top.
Just trying to help, my guy had his windshield guy install my new panel, because the windshield guy is the expert with working with urethane glues...
Got the car back this week. He told me after a few days of sitting out on the sun he noticed a few bubbles mainly on the top side start coming up. So he deemed it unsuccessful. He did not charge me anything, so no loss here. He did offer me other options, such as some gel coating they might be able to put etc. but I declined, told him I’ll take it back in a few months after I find a replacement panel.
It does 100% look better than it did before though, so I’m happy with it. I’ll still post updates every month or every other to show progression on how it starts failing.
For anyone who still thinks they might be able to just strip & paint, use this post to save your money! Do it the right way.
Got the car back this week. He told me after a few days of sitting out on the sun he noticed a few bubbles mainly on the top side start coming up. So he deemed it unsuccessful. He did not charge me anything, so no loss here. He did offer me other options, such as some gel coating they might be able to put etc. but I declined, told him I’ll take it back in a few months after I find a replacement panel.
It does 100% look better than it did before though, so I’m happy with it. I’ll still post updates every month or every other to show progression on how it starts failing.
For anyone who still thinks they might be able to just strip & paint, use this post to save your money! Do it the right way.
Thank you for reporting back with these real world results. I'm sorry that the repair didn't work out for you, but this is a great example of why folks shouldn't put any faith in repairs that simply "cover" the issue rather than dealing with the root of the problem.
Again, thanks for the follow-up as it might save some other folks the hassle and cost. At least in your case, it didn't cost you anything and the car looks better than it did for the time being.
Thank you for reporting back with these real world results. I'm sorry that the repair didn't work out for you, but this is a great example of why folks shouldn't put any faith in repairs that simply "cover" the issue rather than dealing with the root of the problem.
Again, thanks for the follow-up as it might save some other folks the hassle and cost. At least in your case, it didn't cost you anything and the car looks better than it did for the time being.
Had mine painted twice by a Chevrolet dealer body shop. It looks worse than bad case of oozing acne. Car a 20k on the odo, and still looks and smells new, other than this. Exploring options now…
Seems to me that something in the adhesive probably doesn't cure and works it's way to the surface over time. I doubt that primer on the underside would have prevented that if paint on the top side can't contain it.
I believe GM used a decent epoxy primer on the older sail panels which stopped the seepage of the adhesive. I can't remember if they went with a different adhesive when they saved money on the primer or not. I know when I replaced the panel on my 2002 TA, the bottom of the sail panel was coated a couple of times with a highly recommended epoxy primer. I can't remember the adhesive I used but it's probably mentioned earlier in this thread.
Seems to me that something in the adhesive probably doesn't cure and works it's way to the surface over time. I doubt that primer on the underside would have prevented that if paint on the top side can't contain it.
Primer on the underside is exactly how GM used to prep these panels on the '98-and-earlier cars which never had this problem (and the same method that is recommended in the GM TSB to prevent the issue on a replacement panel). The panel is porous but the primer is not, so the adhesive never has an opportunity to saturate the panel when primer is applied from the underside (meaning the issue is blocked before it can start). Without the primer, the porous panel will eventually become saturated by the direct application of this adhesive (impetus being heat exposure, usually from sunlight heating the panel), and primer on the top side won't be enough to prevent continued heat/sun from drawing out the saturation in the compromised panel (hence the bubbles which lift the paint until it eventually breaks and oozes).
Originally Posted by OhTwo
I believe GM used a decent epoxy primer on the older sail panels which stopped the seepage of the adhesive. I can't remember if they went with a different adhesive when they saved money on the primer or not. I know when I replaced the panel on my 2002 TA, the bottom of the sail panel was coated a couple of times with a highly recommended epoxy primer. I can't remember the adhesive I used but it's probably mentioned earlier in this thread.
When I had my '02 car repaired at a local GM dealer under warranty, they explained that the adhesive recommendations in the TSB were the same as the original adhesive (including the earlier cars that didn't bubble), the only thing that had changed on the "bubbling" cars was how the underside of the panel had been prepped prior to original assembly (meaning factory omission of any sort of primer as a barrier coat to prevent the adhesive from ever actually touching the panel directly in the first place). The TSB recommendation was just a return to the earlier process of first coating the underside of the panel.
I feel like I'm bringing this thread back from the dead!
So my 98 has some very small little clear bubble along the top, nothing like I saw in the picts reading this 110 page thread. Yes I searched & read the thread.
I too was thinking the wrap idea. I was going to hand sand out the clear coat where it has pealed and make it smooth, I was thinking like a good wet sanding with 1000+ grit, then wrap in a nice gloss vinyl.
My pealing is very minor, its annoying to me, cuz I see it, not be cause it looks terrible.
Any success with this and a 98 from anyone? Or am I also one of those who are being forced to rip it off and replace?
Obviously my car is far from being able to get GM to do anything about it.
Wrap only looks good until the bubbles show in the wrap. It's not a permanent fix and will show again over time.
I guess I'm curious to know how long it will stay nice before it rears its ugly head. The car will spend its time in a garage or barn when not driven. I'd have to guess to say how much sun exposure, it would be considerably less than one which would be outside all the time.
If a wrap lasts 4 years and looking good for under $25 doing it myself. I'd call that a WIN.
I guess I'm curious to know how long it will stay nice before it rears its ugly head. The car will spend its time in a garage or barn when not driven. I'd have to guess to say how much sun exposure, it would be considerably less than one which would be outside all the time.
If a wrap lasts 4 years and looking good for under $25 doing it myself. I'd call that a WIN.
my SS had this issue. I sanded it and had it wrapped and within a couple months it bubbled the wrap and looked like crap. And the car was garage kept.
I feel like I'm bringing this thread back from the dead!
So my 98 has some very small little clear bubble along the top, nothing like I saw in the picts reading this 110 page thread. Yes I searched & read the thread.
I too was thinking the wrap idea. I was going to hand sand out the clear coat where it has pealed and make it smooth, I was thinking like a good wet sanding with 1000+ grit, then wrap in a nice gloss vinyl.
My pealing is very minor, its annoying to me, cuz I see it, not be cause it looks terrible.
Any success with this and a 98 from anyone? Or am I also one of those who are being forced to rip it off and replace?
Obviously my car is far from being able to get GM to do anything about it.
So it's not exactly clear what sort of issue you're facing here. The vast majority of '98s don't have the "bubbling" issue covered in this thread, but that doesn't mean that other, unrelated, paint issues can't develop. Above, you also called this "peeling" - that is not necessarily the same condition as the bubbling and could potentially be fixed with a normal paint repair process.
Two things would be helpful here:
- Build month of your car. This can be found on one of the stickers on the door side of the driver's door jamb. It would be something like "05/98" or "11/97", etc. If it was built in 04/98 or earlier, it's unlikely that you have the condition discussed in this thread. May (05) of '98 was the transition month, so if you see 05/98 or later then you may be seeing signs of this.
- Pics. If we could see the issue up close, with good pics, it would help to get an idea of whether we're just dealing with general clear coat peel or the actual "bubbling" issue which requires roof replacement.
- Build month of your car. This can be found on one of the stickers on the door side of the driver's door jamb. It would be something like "05/98" or "11/97", etc. If it was built in 04/98 or earlier, it's unlikely that you have the condition discussed in this thread. May (05) of '98 was the transition month, so if you see 05/98 or later then you may be seeing signs of this.
My car's build date - 04/98
- Pics. If we could see the issue up close, with good pics, it would help to get an idea of whether we're just dealing with general clear coat peel or the actual "bubbling" issue which requires roof replacement.
This literally looks just like the typical clear coat pealing these cars are notorious for on the paint. The surface on the sail panel is perfect.
Car is put away - pics are not an option right now
This literally looks just like the typical clear coat pealing these cars are notorious for on the paint. The surface on the sail panel is perfect.
Car is put away - pics are not an option right now
So it doesn't sound like you have the actual "bubbling" issue, which starts with a wavy, rippled-looking surface on the panel (along areas where the glue was applied to the underside), and then eventually leads to bubbles that will burst and ooze like a pustule.
If it's just clear coat peel, then any normal paint repair method (sanding/prep/repainting, vinyl wrap) will work fine and hold up over the long term.
The earliest cars I've ever found with this issue (and I did extensive research many years ago) were from 05/98, and not even all 05/98 cars seem to develop the issue. Your build date is close but, based on your description, it doesn't sound like you're dealing with the subject of this thread. Maybe you could post some pics when the car returns from hibernation but, again, based on your build month and condition description my initial feeling is that it doesn't sound like you will need panel replacement.
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May 10, 2016, 02:15 PM
