well after my heads and cam and intake install I had my car dyno tuned by a local shop. Well the first problem was the car wouldn't idle for nothing until it warmed up. You would have to two foot it and its an auto. The shop that tuned it got some kind of new EFI live software called live wire or some thing like that where they put a different pcm in the car so they can tune it live on the dyno then they flash that info to my stock computer is what they told me. They said they could get the tune perfect that way. Well good news now it idles fine when you start it but it has an intermittent miss or some thing at lower rpms now. Its basiclly at cruising speed like 1500-2000 rpms and then the car is sluggish as hell. The shop blamed it on my 02 sensors. It feels more like they fouled out the new tr6 plugs that were installed about 200 miles ago during the heads and cam install. It wasn't doing this until they just retuned it agian.
Here is what the car has on it.
PRC 2.5 5.3 heads
230/203 598/612 111+2 cam
Fast 92/92
42lb injectors
and most bolt ons minus ewp.
I asked if they tuned for the larger injectors before starting the car the firts time with them in there and they said yes. I know that would jack up the 02s and the new plugs. What else could it be? I pulled one of the plugs and the strap didn't look to bad but the last 1/4 inch of the threads were pretty carboned up for only haveing 200 miles on them. I have already ordered new 02s (bosch 13111s) they will be in in a couple of days. But I have never seen an 02 cause this. Also if it were an 02 sensor wouldn't they have seen the problem with it during the tune?? I am at the point I am ready to tell them to get fu--ed and pay some one else to tune the car.

 

The plugs could be fouled and if they did not change the IFR right off the bat then yes the plugs can foul in a matter of minutes, and Yes bad O2's can also cause this after closed loop. Pull the plugs and see if they are black, replace with new ones, if they continue to get fouled (black Carbon) then yes you will need to have your tune adjusted...

 

O2 sensors are merely along for the ride...If they fail and your car has been tuned properly, you should have no appreciable performance difference.

If there is / are intake and or exhaust leaks the O2 sensors and your airflow measurement sensors, MAF / MAP will dutifully report the leaks and cause the pcm to dump fuel fouling plugs, poor gas milage and overall poor performance as you have describe.

All the fancy pants tuning equipment cannot fix a broken vehicle.

 

The vehicle ran fine and was definetly not *(Broken). Its a low mileage car 56,000 miles and the engine only has around 20,000. The exhaust is all fairly new and there are no leaks. The car was actually running fine before the retune with the new software or what ever they used it just wouldn't idle until it warmed up and went into closed loop. Now it idles fine all of the time it just has a miss or studder and it sounds like it could be poping a little through the exhaust then it will clear up and run fine.

 

Well, all systems are working fine then you merely have a tune problem. Just trying to give the shop the benefit of doubt. Alot of "tuning" problems end up being simple fixes to the car physically. Why not take it back?

 

The same shop did all of the work on the car including the install of the heads cam and intake and the tune. The car has already been back to them like 4 times in the past 3 weeks. They have had the car more in the past 2 months than I have. I have pretty much done every thing they asked. They complained about my 92mm tb so I bought a new one from them which didn't solve the idle issue. The owner finanly told me they bought the live tunning software what ever it is so he could tune the car perfect. Now it comes back running worse than when I droped it off. I am hopeing when they retuned it this time he didn't retune for the 42lb injectors before he started the car and just fouled the plugs and its not still a problem with the tune. I just don't see how he retuned the car the way tis running. The only thing he could have done is play with the idle. I am going to change the plugs and 02 sensors tomarrow as long as its not raining. If that doesn't fix it I think I am going to take the car to them on my car hauler and tell them to pull their tuninng out and give me a refund and then take the car else were for tuning. It sucks to have to do this because I like to keep a good relation ship with any one I deal with but I guess it is what it is.It just seems like they have every excuse in the book for the problems with the idle and such. He blamed the idle problems because my cam was a 111 lobe seperation. The funny thing is my old car also had a 111 cam and it didn't have the same problems but it was tuned by some one else. That car ran alot like this one does now before it was dyno tuned. The main reason I took it to this shop is I like to try to spread my business between all of the local shops.

 

If you are confident that you have nothing mechanical wrong,
then it is time for a second opinion.
The idle thing is probably because they didn`t see that low of ECT when
first tuning it, and another possible scenario is they`re WBO2 needed calibration or replacement, skewing everything.
most places just stick your car on the dyno and when it makes
the most power they are done, no driving.

Your tune my not be as bad as you might think but, a second opinion seems
necessary if you`ve been back and not gotten satisfaction. IMO

What you describe in regards to EFILive is called, "Real Time Emulation",
and in the right hands can be extremely effective.
You may just need a few adjustments.

 

What kind of 92mm TB? Was the replacement the same brand / model?

The 111lsa has nothing to do with drivability in the right hands.

 

The car originally had a Jantzer 92mm tb which I returned and Chris sent me a new one but these guys couldn't wait so I bought a new fast 92 from them. The new fast really didn't make a difference though. As far as the 111 lsa thats the main thing this guy is blameing for the idle issues. Now the idle issue is gone. My main concern is the miss it has now. I am hoping its just spark plugs which I will change out later today. Maybe the ystarted it and let it run with the new larger injectors with out tunning for them and fouled the plugs.

 

If you're talking about going from stock 28's to 42's the car would not run very well, if at all if it was not tuned for them.

 

Yes the stock 28s were removed and the car now has flow matched injectors that are rated 42lbs at 3 bar which would be like a 59lb injector in this car. I am thinking they started the car over there and let it run before they tuned it for the larger injectors causing damage to the 02s and new plugs that were installed. I know they have tuned it for the larger injectors now but I have been told if the ystarted the car and let it run any amount of time with the larger injectors before they tuned them it could have fouled my new plugs.

 

man is this shop a sponsor? Your in texas, do you know how many shops there are down there that are really familiar with our type of cars? If your not taking your shop to a sponsor on this site, i wouldn't waste my time or money. Take it to someone that knows what their doing.

****, i learned the hard way. I went to this same tuner on 2 seperate occasions cause i thought he was doing good work. Sure i made some nice numbers on the dyno, but once i got HPTuners and checked some tables out they were nearly stock. Uhm, you dont pay $400 and drive 3 hours to have a half-*** tune.