Is it worth upgrading to EFILive?
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 14,378
Likes: 1
From: League City, TX
Re: Is it worth upgrading to EFILive?
The Ease looks like a good program, but I'm not sure if alot of people have it. I'd hate to have something no one could help me with.
Ease is the largest vendor of PCM scanners for the personal and professional use. It is the only one of the laptop types used by those on these forums that is approved by GM and EPA to where some states mandate Ease being using for smog testing so that assures your using it that you would get the same results as the smog shops.
Ease has not won several product design awards for having a product no one uses.
I have no doubt it's widely used. But, I don't see any of it's users here, for me to ask questions of when I get lost.
TECH Resident
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 754
Likes: 0
From: USA
Re: Is it worth upgrading to EFILive? Your personal bias is overshadowing common sense, Uuh dude.
Officially, any scanner that is bound to B&B's hardware is also bound to how well or poor that interface is and if the vendor cannot build their own interface which is nothing more then a few protocol and RS232 chips then they also are stuck with the label most of us who paid for autotap and found it to be, unwilling to function correctly
most of the time and slower then EPA requirements.
Its a joke that the marketing pitch is to buy autotap and then also buy the other scanner from the same vendor to makeup what each scanner is lacking in and then BTW buy a new interface but at the same time quote performance from the interface they say you should replace because it is too slow.
So now you replace the slower interface with their new interface and now OBD-III is out and the new interface cannot support that, good thinking, now go buy another scanner when you have a 04/05 car, opps go buy another interface.
Ease's interface at least supports OBD I,II and now III, one interface as this say KISS.
Officially, any scanner that is bound to B&B's hardware is also bound to how well or poor that interface is and if the vendor cannot build their own interface which is nothing more then a few protocol and RS232 chips then they also are stuck with the label most of us who paid for autotap and found it to be, unwilling to function correctly
most of the time and slower then EPA requirements.
Its a joke that the marketing pitch is to buy autotap and then also buy the other scanner from the same vendor to makeup what each scanner is lacking in and then BTW buy a new interface but at the same time quote performance from the interface they say you should replace because it is too slow.
So now you replace the slower interface with their new interface and now OBD-III is out and the new interface cannot support that, good thinking, now go buy another scanner when you have a 04/05 car, opps go buy another interface.
Ease's interface at least supports OBD I,II and now III, one interface as this say KISS.
Isn't Team ZR1 the same dude that got a permanent ban from LS1.com?
Regardless, and in full disclosure, I have assisted with EFILive V6 during beta testing, and have found it to be a stable platform. The cable requirements are dictated by licensing arrangements thru B&B, who make Autotap, and the program extracts the "enhanced" data as fast as possible from the PCM's in the LS1 and LS6 engines, as well as performs basic OBDII scan tool modes for most other GM models.
Keep in mind that "officially" from B&B only EFILive V5 is offered. This is being addressed, and so some of their people may not be fully "up to speed" on V6. Cut them a bit of slack, and by all means double check the www.efilive.com site. That's the quickest way to get information as to the status of what works and what doesn't, latest version, possible workarounds, etc...
MRK
Regardless, and in full disclosure, I have assisted with EFILive V6 during beta testing, and have found it to be a stable platform. The cable requirements are dictated by licensing arrangements thru B&B, who make Autotap, and the program extracts the "enhanced" data as fast as possible from the PCM's in the LS1 and LS6 engines, as well as performs basic OBDII scan tool modes for most other GM models.
Keep in mind that "officially" from B&B only EFILive V5 is offered. This is being addressed, and so some of their people may not be fully "up to speed" on V6. Cut them a bit of slack, and by all means double check the www.efilive.com site. That's the quickest way to get information as to the status of what works and what doesn't, latest version, possible workarounds, etc...
MRK
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 14,378
Likes: 1
From: League City, TX
Re: Is it worth upgrading to EFILive?
Your personal bias is overshadowing common sense, Uuh dude.
I have no bias for ether of these products, other than I've used Autotap and it's worked for me.
If I'm going to try to learn another program, I will want (and need) a support bases... and I sure as hell wouldn't look to someone that would rather insult me than make a technical arguement. Thanks for helping decide against Ease.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 14,378
Likes: 1
From: League City, TX
Re: Is it worth upgrading to EFILive? OK.. been doing a little more reading.
Are all the bidirectional controls geared towards making temperary changes on a dyno?
Are there any dianostic values added?
Are all the bidirectional controls geared towards making temperary changes on a dyno?
Are there any dianostic values added?
Re: Is it worth upgrading to EFILive?
OK.. been doing a little more reading.
Are all the bidirectional controls geared towards making temperary changes on a dyno?
Are there any dianostic values added?
Are all the bidirectional controls geared towards making temperary changes on a dyno?
Are there any dianostic values added?
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TECH Addict
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,551
Likes: 0
From: St Louis, MO
Re: Is it worth upgrading to EFILive? I have no bias against Ease. I have a bias against you, John. Ease makes a number of attractive products, but you discredit them by being their biggest cheerleader. When you're called out to answer for your unfounded statements, you either disappear or jumble together a bunch of technical sounding nonsense. When questioned on that, you invariably tell people to read the SAE books on the subject.
I really dont need to post this, as you've already destroyed your credibility on every forum except your own.
Now lets see those 40fps log files...
I really dont need to post this, as you've already destroyed your credibility on every forum except your own.
Now lets see those 40fps log files...
Re: Is it worth upgrading to EFILive?
As to Warp mode, I have been testing it for over 1 year with hundreds of GM cars and over 3,000 PCM recording and its speed is way beyond what people are being told by other scanner vendors. You get the EPA standard of 10 F/ps with as many as 50 PIDs concurrently, switch to 20 F/ps or 40 F/ps.
It is easy to artificially inflate speeds by quoting the data transfer rates (as you do) from the cable to the PC - which is not a true indication of the data sampling rate.
Regards
Paul
11 Second Club
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,645
Likes: 0
From: Hanover MD
Re: Is it worth upgrading to EFILive? john, efi live is a excellent product! its so much easier than atap v1. i have it setup where when i bott it up, i have everything i want right there ready to go. i havent messed with v6 too much yet, but its very very nice with the bi-di controls.
never seen ease yet, so i dont have a comparison to work with. you wont be disapointed with efi live! with the bi-di controls, you can lock the car in 3rd gear and lock the converter on the dyno if you want, very nice tool in my opinion.
never seen ease yet, so i dont have a comparison to work with. you wont be disapointed with efi live! with the bi-di controls, you can lock the car in 3rd gear and lock the converter on the dyno if you want, very nice tool in my opinion.
Re: Is it worth upgrading to EFILive?
OK.. been doing a little more reading.
Are all the bidirectional controls geared towards making temperary changes on a dyno?
Are there any dianostic values added?
Are all the bidirectional controls geared towards making temperary changes on a dyno?
Are there any dianostic values added?
Sorry for getting a bit off topic earlier, its just that unchallenged dis-information can eventually turn into "fact".
The bidirectional controls provide similar functionality to the ones that are found on a Tech2.
Bidirectionl controls are *very* different in both how they are used and what they do to anything that you can/would do with LS1Edit.
Many people confuse bidi controls with LS1Edit and reprogramming the PCM's calibrations.
Bidirectional controls are manually activated by you the user - at no time does EFILive "alter" any PCM calibrations.
The calibrations in the PCM remain unchanged - EFILive simply sends a command (at your manual request) to activate or deactivate certain operations.
You can:
1. Manually operate systems that are normally controlled by the PCM: A/C clutch solenoid, turn fans on/off, illuminate the MIL and/or skip shift light, turn fuel pump on/off and others.
2. Perform a crank position sensor relearn - required if the physical relationship between the crank and the crank sensor is ever disturbed - or if the PCM is swapped.
3. Perform a cylinder power balance test
4. Hold a selected gear and/or lock the TCC - to prevent kickdown during WOT dyno runs.
5. Manually control the desired idle speed. This easily lets you find out what idle speed is best for the engine - you can turn fans on/off and A/C clutch on/off to see the effects they have on idle speed.
6. A new transmission bidi control panel is being tested that provides complete diagnostic control over all solenoids in the transmission - including TCC enable, TCC apply, 3-2 shift and the Pressure Control Solenoid current.
Regards
Paul
Re: Is it worth upgrading to EFILive? I have both Ease and EFILive5&6 and I feel that both have their strength and weakness. For example the charting function in Ease is very nice. When reviewing a scan log I can drag the slide bar to a particular spot and resume the playback or advance one frame at a time. I haven't been able to do that with EFILive. Playback always wants to start back at the beginning and some of my logs are over an hour long. EFI won't work on my '01 Silverado, but I hope they resolve that issue soon. I am a bit new to EFILive, but value features such as easy export of selected data in my selected order directly to a .csv file. I'm still getting acquainted with the bidi controls, but so far they work as promised. I'm anxious to see some additional dashboards for EFI6. Any idea if new layouts are available?
IMO, both scan tools are very effecient at looking into your cars PCM. EFILive has sizeable presence here on these boards and that may make some feel more comfortable buying that product, but by no means does that make Ease an inferior product.
Good luck with your choice.
Richard
IMO, both scan tools are very effecient at looking into your cars PCM. EFILive has sizeable presence here on these boards and that may make some feel more comfortable buying that product, but by no means does that make Ease an inferior product.
Good luck with your choice.
Richard
On The Tree
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 175
Likes: 0
Re: Is it worth upgrading to EFILive? Perhaps the Ease 'warp speed' mode is kinda like PMPO ratings on stereo gear.
We need some proof before it'll be believed that you are getting updated data <font color="red"> FROM <!--color--></font> the PCM at a greater rate than anybody else, or is it just faster data rates from the ADAPTOR to PC?.
I still can't see how you can get the PCM to send out data any faster than what is coded into it's firmware as the limits
We need some proof before it'll be believed that you are getting updated data <font color="red"> FROM <!--color--></font> the PCM at a greater rate than anybody else, or is it just faster data rates from the ADAPTOR to PC?.
I still can't see how you can get the PCM to send out data any faster than what is coded into it's firmware as the limits
Re: Is it worth upgrading to EFILive?
I have both Ease and EFILive5&6 and I feel that both have their strength and weakness. For example the charting function in Ease is very nice. When reviewing a scan log I can drag the slide bar to a particular spot and resume the playback or advance one frame at a time. I haven't been able to do that with EFILive. Playback always wants to start back at the beginning and some of my logs are over an hour long. EFI won't work on my '01 Silverado, but I hope they resolve that issue soon. I am a bit new to EFILive, but value features such as easy export of selected data in my selected order directly to a .csv file. I'm still getting acquainted with the bidi controls, but so far they work as promised. I'm anxious to see some additional dashboards for EFI6. Any idea if new layouts are available?
IMO, both scan tools are very effecient at looking into your cars PCM. EFILive has sizeable presence here on these boards and that may make some feel more comfortable buying that product, but by no means does that make Ease an inferior product.
Good luck with your choice.
Richard
IMO, both scan tools are very effecient at looking into your cars PCM. EFILive has sizeable presence here on these boards and that may make some feel more comfortable buying that product, but by no means does that make Ease an inferior product.
Good luck with your choice.
Richard
Re: Is it worth upgrading to EFILive?
wont the AT1 cable work with the efi live?
Paul
And yes, EFI is much better than ATAP.
Re: Is it worth upgrading to EFILive? [/quote]
The way to get around this is to close the current log and open it back up. EFILive will re-plot all the data and you can use the horizontal scroll bar on the bottom to advance playback. Dont hit play, it will start from the beginning of the log.
[/quote]
Thanks for the tip. I'll give it a try.
Richard
TECH Addict
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,207
Likes: 0
From: College Station, Tx
Re: Is it worth upgrading to EFILive? Ease is definitely a fine product, as is EFILive. Ease's biggest advantage is it's larger support of vehicles (GM, Ford, etc) - if you are a shop, tuner, etc. that may be an issue. Of course you also pay much more for this, but then you get to use the same interface.
But as an individual I am not really worried about that - and for LSx based vehicles I feel EFILive is superiour.
I think one tremendous difference is the ability of EFILive to allow for calculated PID's in real time. Since the LS1 spark tables are scaled in units of g/cyl you will naturally wish to know what g/cyl value you are at for any given data cell. You can do this as a calculated PID in EFILive - I am not aware of any other scan package that allows for this. (you have to do them all offline in excel, etc.) But it's not limited to g/cyl - as it is user configurable you can set it up for whatever you desire (VE, Horsepower (calculated), etc.). That alone is a tremendous advantage, and in a day-to-day usability context a very "big deal".
I wouldn't hesitate to suggest EFILive to any individual - unless you have specific needs to scan cars from multiple vendors, etc. I *feel* it is the way to go.
But I welcome new information - if Team ZR-1 can demonstrate features, abilities, or techniques that can be used with Ease or anything, by all means! The only limit is that no pricing information nor overt solicitations can be posted regarding Ease (unless said person is a Sponsor).
But as an individual I am not really worried about that - and for LSx based vehicles I feel EFILive is superiour.
I think one tremendous difference is the ability of EFILive to allow for calculated PID's in real time. Since the LS1 spark tables are scaled in units of g/cyl you will naturally wish to know what g/cyl value you are at for any given data cell. You can do this as a calculated PID in EFILive - I am not aware of any other scan package that allows for this. (you have to do them all offline in excel, etc.) But it's not limited to g/cyl - as it is user configurable you can set it up for whatever you desire (VE, Horsepower (calculated), etc.). That alone is a tremendous advantage, and in a day-to-day usability context a very "big deal".
I wouldn't hesitate to suggest EFILive to any individual - unless you have specific needs to scan cars from multiple vendors, etc. I *feel* it is the way to go.
But I welcome new information - if Team ZR-1 can demonstrate features, abilities, or techniques that can be used with Ease or anything, by all means! The only limit is that no pricing information nor overt solicitations can be posted regarding Ease (unless said person is a Sponsor).