Possible to delete MAF?
Frost what are you changing on the 98 because when we try to tune in SD with the MAF unplugged the car just won't run right. Maybe there is a table in the 98 that is different than the 99 and up?
Ya know... Greg's feedback on the bias situation from our recent thread underscores the reason that I leave STFTs active for all street cars tuned SD. CLSD works very well!
I don't really do them much different than the 99-ups, I just can't use RTT on the 98s. I make up a base file from my head (changes to an OEM file for the car) to rough the setups in, get them up and going and close enough to work with and I tweak from there. There is nothing extra special that I do for 98s. There are 2 approaches to SD in a 98 for N/A applications. I use the HPTuner's 2bar custom OS whenever possible since the secondary VE is workable, but sucks (and the 2bar OS does away with it) next to a full table. The custom OS puts you back on the HO table too. You can setup the MAP parameters to run the OEM sensor with the 2bar OS. On the occasion that that was not possible or not desired by the customer, we tune off the secondary VE and LO table like back in the day.
For the difficult cars, why do they die when unhooked (fuel, spark, airflow, or other)?
For the difficult cars, why do they die when unhooked (fuel, spark, airflow, or other)?
Ya know... Greg's feedback on the bias situation from our recent thread underscores the reason that I leave STFTs active for all street cars tuned SD. CLSD works very well!
I don't really do them much different than the 99-ups, I just can't use RTT on the 98s. I make up a base file from my head (changes to an OEM file for the car) to rough the setups in, get them up and going and close enough to work with and I tweak from there. There is nothing extra special that I do for 98s. There are 2 approaches to SD in a 98 for N/A applications. I use the HPTuner's 2bar custom OS whenever possible since the secondary VE is workable, but sucks (and the 2bar OS does away with it) next to a full table. The custom OS puts you back on the HO table too. You can setup the MAP parameters to run the OEM sensor with the 2bar OS. On the occasion that that was not possible or not desired by the customer, we tune off the secondary VE and LO table like back in the day.
For the difficult cars, why do they die when unhooked (fuel, spark, airflow, or other)?
I don't really do them much different than the 99-ups, I just can't use RTT on the 98s. I make up a base file from my head (changes to an OEM file for the car) to rough the setups in, get them up and going and close enough to work with and I tweak from there. There is nothing extra special that I do for 98s. There are 2 approaches to SD in a 98 for N/A applications. I use the HPTuner's 2bar custom OS whenever possible since the secondary VE is workable, but sucks (and the 2bar OS does away with it) next to a full table. The custom OS puts you back on the HO table too. You can setup the MAP parameters to run the OEM sensor with the 2bar OS. On the occasion that that was not possible or not desired by the customer, we tune off the secondary VE and LO table like back in the day.
For the difficult cars, why do they die when unhooked (fuel, spark, airflow, or other)?
The IAT has enough airflow at WOT to report correctly. I only see a couple tenths at most in the wide outside temperature differences that we have in this area. If you spend the time to get it right cell by cell, it works well.
So what hard parts have to be modified to run SD? Yall are speakin a whole different language for the time being but im very intrigued by this change and process etc. Ive searched as much as i can but didnt ever really find a pros/cons to the system. Im happy simplify it all, loose weight, reduce intake obstructions etc but i still feel somewhat in the dark about it as a whole. I sent an Email to LMR about it but havent gotten a reply yet, theres an issue with my TC i wanna get wrapped up too and figure ill do em both at the same time. Hence me asking what needs to be done in preparation.
Ive heard many things about what needs to be done and what not but never from a trusted source. any suggestions?
Ive heard many things about what needs to be done and what not but never from a trusted source. any suggestions?
Cool. Once I get a new wideband I'll try it out.
LS1 Tech Stories
The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time
6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them
Pouria Savadkouei
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Pouria Savadkouei
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP
Verdad Gallardo
Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes
Verdad Gallardo
Awesome K5 Blazer Restomod Comes With C7 Corvette Power
Verdad Gallardo
10 Camaros You Should Never Buy
10 LS Engine Myths That Refuse to Die
Verdad Gallardo
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 620
Likes: 0
From: Katherine N.T Australia
You dont estimate anything. You Log commanded AFR and Actual from the WB. Comparing the 2 in a log (EFI LIVE calls it a BEN). For example if commanded = actual the BEN will be 1. If commanded is richer than actual the BEN will be >1 and vice versa. The BEN's for each MAP/RPM point are then multiplied into the VE table which applies the corrections required to bring commanded and actual into line. Hence if its 1 nothing changes. If its less than 1, VE and subsequently fuel will be reduced. Higher than 1 adds fuel. But its actually the air model not a fuel model in a purist sense, but we'll keep it simple and just think that higher VE adds fuel.
So what hard parts have to be modified to run SD? Yall are speakin a whole different language for the time being but im very intrigued by this change and process etc. Ive searched as much as i can but didnt ever really find a pros/cons to the system. Im happy simplify it all, loose weight, reduce intake obstructions etc but i still feel somewhat in the dark about it as a whole. I sent an Email to LMR about it but havent gotten a reply yet, theres an issue with my TC i wanna get wrapped up too and figure ill do em both at the same time. Hence me asking what needs to be done in preparation.
Ive heard many things about what needs to be done and what not but never from a trusted source. any suggestions?
Ive heard many things about what needs to be done and what not but never from a trusted source. any suggestions?
I don't see anything but boltons in your signature... unless its missing a lot of info, I wouldn't ditch the MAF for your setup.
Being built right now is a 6.0 with forged rods and pistons, 706's with full p&p on a flow bench, 2.08 1.60, and a custom cam that with 1:8 rockers will achieve nearly .700ths lift. not sure about whp but weve got our fingers crossed for at least 600 fwhp. If i was betting id put money on a yes.
while the motor goes together im trying to prepare the rest of the car for it, SD, im looking at a 12pt cage, trying to find a 12 bolt rear, and looking at driveshafts. couple of suspension pieces on their way, etc. etc.
Even if it doesnt get the Speed Density till after the motor, Im trying to put my ducks in a row before i get there. At least to have information and parts waiting on the floor of my bedroom for when it all goes down.
I also wanna remove as many variables as possible to eliminate problems surrounding the swap. less problems less headache less stress less cussing and throwing tools
got time to plan it, may as well. You dont estimate anything. You Log commanded AFR and Actual from the WB. Comparing the 2 in a log (EFI LIVE calls it a BEN). For example if commanded = actual the BEN will be 1. If commanded is richer than actual the BEN will be >1 and vice versa. The BEN's for each MAP/RPM point are then multiplied into the VE table which applies the corrections required to bring commanded and actual into line. Hence if its 1 nothing changes. If its less than 1, VE and subsequently fuel will be reduced. Higher than 1 adds fuel. But its actually the air model not a fuel model in a purist sense, but we'll keep it simple and just think that higher VE adds fuel.
Im glad you agree, otherwise id feel like a dick for wasting your time lol. so back to my last question and to add another. Should I go SD before the motor then retune after or wait till after the swap then go SD?
I was thinkin go SD before so that i can break in the cam with some degree of rightness in the motor. It would be way to much work to put an EFI motor on my dyno.
What hard parts are needed to run SD? 3 bar MAP? Wideband O2?
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 620
Likes: 0
From: Katherine N.T Australia
Hardly time consuming. The MAP populates itself with BEN numbers then when your done logging you select all and copy the MAP with labels. Then paste and multiply into the VE table.. Takes less than 10 seconds to adjust the VE after an entire session. Hell if you have a Road Runner PCM it even alters the VE table by itself while you drive. Its one reason why EFI LIVE is the Best tuning solution for our engines.
Hardly time consuming. The MAP populates itself with BEN numbers then when your done logging you select all and copy the MAP with labels. Then paste and multiply into the VE table.. Takes less than 10 seconds to adjust the VE after an entire session. Hell if you have a Road Runner PCM it even alters the VE table by itself while you drive. Its one reason why EFI LIVE is the Best tuning solution for our engines.
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 620
Likes: 0
From: Katherine N.T Australia
Automatic filters are built in to ignore large changes in delta TP. Also your taking thousands of data snapshots over a decent run. For each individual load/rpm point all the data that is placed there is averaged. The WB is not as laggy as you might think either. The Road Runner has filters too. Once its met the set acquisition total it locks out a cell as its deemed tuned.
I realize its an average, just if that one particular cell is hit the same way due to the lag then you will have large spikes in the VE table when you copy over the afr error % right? BTW I have hptuners, I wish they would incorporate when you playback the log it shows it in the actual tune which cells are being used. That's a real nice feature for sure.
Is there a sticky somewhere im missing that tells exactly what needs to be done to put the car in SD mode with HP tuners? Like...what codes to delete and so on? Also....do you run OL or CL in SD mode?