Tuners please come in..!!!! VIDEO ADDED
Did they act irresponsibly? Sounds like it. Is the damage to the bearings due to their actions? Probably not.
If it was lean due to low fuel pressure, that didn't just happen when they strapped it down. It had to have been like that to begin with.
Now if it were lean from tuning, from not knowing how to tune in SD, that's a whole 'nuther story.
Regardless, they should have stopped.
If it was lean due to low fuel pressure, that didn't just happen when they strapped it down. It had to have been like that to begin with.
Now if it were lean from tuning, from not knowing how to tune in SD, that's a whole 'nuther story.
Regardless, they should have stopped.
Last edited by edcmat-l1; Feb 10, 2010 at 01:32 PM.
Thread Starter
11 Second Club
iTrader: (6)
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 973
Likes: 1
From: Houston (The Champions)
I was just going through my cell phone and remembered that I actually video taped a part of the tuning process. The video shows my car on the dyno and the computer screen reading 18.4 afr. And the tuner is holding my car at 2500 rpms at 70 mph while sitting at the 18.4 afr for more then two minutes. This seems a bit much to me. Am I over reacting here.
As for the bearing issue, it JUST happened when this "shop" was tuning my car. I changed the oil 1 week prior and the oil pressure has NEVER dropped below 35 lbs, even on the hottest day. Then the second I leave this damn "shop" I see my pressure steadly dropping till it finally sits at 10 lbs. I hurry home, pull the oil filter and cut it open to get a hand full of bearing.
As for the bearing issue, it JUST happened when this "shop" was tuning my car. I changed the oil 1 week prior and the oil pressure has NEVER dropped below 35 lbs, even on the hottest day. Then the second I leave this damn "shop" I see my pressure steadly dropping till it finally sits at 10 lbs. I hurry home, pull the oil filter and cut it open to get a hand full of bearing.
Thread Starter
11 Second Club
iTrader: (6)
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 973
Likes: 1
From: Houston (The Champions)
Did the act irresponsibly? Sounds like it. Is the damage to the bearings due to their actions? Probably not.
If it was lean due to low fuel pressure, that didn't just happen when they strapped it down. It had to have been like that to begin with.
Now if it were lean from tuning, from not knowing how to tune in SD, that's a whole 'nuther story.
Regardless, they should have stopped.
If it was lean due to low fuel pressure, that didn't just happen when they strapped it down. It had to have been like that to begin with.
Now if it were lean from tuning, from not knowing how to tune in SD, that's a whole 'nuther story.
Regardless, they should have stopped.
How can you say that the damage to the bearing ISNT due to their actions. I can see in the video the 18.4 afr, and them holding it at high rpms with this afr, while the car is popping, muddling and puffing smoke. I trusted these guys and now I have an expensive paper weight....
Thread Starter
11 Second Club
iTrader: (6)
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 973
Likes: 1
From: Houston (The Champions)
Here's a video clip. Its 45 seconds of a 3 minute video. Notice the computer screen showing the 18.4 afr. And the car being help at almost 3000 rpms for the entire time. This is ALL AFTER I was told that my Racetronix system my be failing. (Turn your volume down, the audio is messed up..)
How can you say that the damage to the bearing ISNT due to their actions. I can see in the video the 18.4 afr, and them holding it at high rpms with this afr, while the car is popping, muddling and puffing smoke. I trusted these guys and now I have an expensive paper weight....
I find it hard to believe it was really that lean. It could have been just a WB malfunction. They'll go screwy on you every so often. They need the filters serviced, and the sensors need replacing every so often.
Just an observation, was the wideband even installed on the car during this video, the afr never moves one bit. it may of been just sitting somewhere and that may be their set max of their wideband.
LS1 Tech Stories
The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time
6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them
Pouria Savadkouei
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Pouria Savadkouei
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP
Verdad Gallardo
Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes
Verdad Gallardo
Awesome K5 Blazer Restomod Comes With C7 Corvette Power
Verdad Gallardo
10 Camaros You Should Never Buy
10 LS Engine Myths That Refuse to Die
Verdad Gallardo
If the AFR was 18.4 I don't think the car would even continue running, it would shut off. Like the others have said, I think your bearing issue is due to something else, unless it had a bunch of detonation and beat the bearings out of it.
Thread Starter
11 Second Club
iTrader: (6)
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 973
Likes: 1
From: Houston (The Champions)
The wide band was hooked up. I even asked if the 18.4 was acurate. And I thought going THAT lean causes detonation, and detonation is mini explosions in the motor which causes things to move that ARENT supposed to move?? That would explain the bearing. Im not trying to argue with ANY of you, and I AM taking in all of the info you guys are giving me, and I truly appreciate all of the responces. I just want to be 100% clear on all of this so I dont go to this shop and start anything that I SHOULDNT be.
11 Second Club
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 149
Likes: 0
An overly lean condition will blow the tips off the plugs, burn a piston, lift a ring land, etc, before it would spin a bearing.
I find it hard to believe it was really that lean. It could have been just a WB malfunction. They'll go screwy on you every so often. They need the filters serviced, and the sensors need replacing every so often.
I find it hard to believe it was really that lean. It could have been just a WB malfunction. They'll go screwy on you every so often. They need the filters serviced, and the sensors need replacing every so often.
Have you even pulled the plugs? Detonation bad enough to destroy bearings will be clearly evident on the plugs.
In serious cases of detonation, the top bearing shell will get hammered. It flattens them out some, and widens out at the top. This happens in blown alcohol motors alot. But, you have to remember, these also have forged pistons and aluminum rods too. The engine in this case has hypereutectic pistons and regular powdered metal rods. You'll damage a piston long before you'll ruin a rod bearing due to detonation.
I agree with the others, I highly doubt running lean during the tuning process caused your bearings issues. You would have hurt the piston long before the bearings and I believe that you had other issues.
Who built the motor, how long ago, and how many miles ago?
Who built the motor, how long ago, and how many miles ago?
Thread Starter
11 Second Club
iTrader: (6)
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 973
Likes: 1
From: Houston (The Champions)
--As for the internals in this motor, its a FULLY forged 408 6ltr. Sorry, I thought I mentioned that already. But no, its FAR from a stock bottom end....
--And as for there being ANY issue with this car before this shop got a hold of it, the ONLY issue was it was a bit rich. I changed the oil not even 30 miles before I brought it to this shop and I ALWAYS cut my oil filters, and I didnt find ANY bearing material when I changed it, and my oil pressure was well above 40lbs at a warm idle. The SECOND I left this damn shop my oil pressure immediatly started dropping till it finally came to rest at 10lbs. And when I got it home, I cut the oil filter and there was a nice amount of bearing.
--I changed the plugs RIGHT before the tuning process started. They were black as hell. I changed the plugs RIGHT after the tune, and they were white as hell.
--As for the internals in this motor, its a FULLY forged 408 6ltr. Sorry, I thought I mentioned that already. But no, its FAR from a stock bottom end....
--And as for there being ANY issue with this car before this shop got a hold of it, the ONLY issue was it was a bit rich. I changed the oil not even 30 miles before I brought it to this shop and I ALWAYS cut my oil filters, and I didnt find ANY bearing material when I changed it, and my oil pressure was well above 40lbs at a warm idle. The SECOND I left this damn shop my oil pressure immediatly started dropping till it finally came to rest at 10lbs. And when I got it home, I cut the oil filter and there was a nice amount of bearing.
--As for the internals in this motor, its a FULLY forged 408 6ltr. Sorry, I thought I mentioned that already. But no, its FAR from a stock bottom end....
--And as for there being ANY issue with this car before this shop got a hold of it, the ONLY issue was it was a bit rich. I changed the oil not even 30 miles before I brought it to this shop and I ALWAYS cut my oil filters, and I didnt find ANY bearing material when I changed it, and my oil pressure was well above 40lbs at a warm idle. The SECOND I left this damn shop my oil pressure immediatly started dropping till it finally came to rest at 10lbs. And when I got it home, I cut the oil filter and there was a nice amount of bearing.
It may have been hurt by extended load, but not by it being lean.
So you want to argue your case with a shop armed with a bunch of internet opinions after you signed a waiver that probably says you assume the risks of running your car on their dyno? Without seeing what you signed, I'm going to say that is probably not your best course for a remedy.
Thread Starter
11 Second Club
iTrader: (6)
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 973
Likes: 1
From: Houston (The Champions)
So you want to argue your case with a shop armed with a bunch of internet opinions after you signed a waiver that probably says you assume the risks of running your car on their dyno? Without seeing what you signed, I'm going to say that is probably not your best course for a remedy.
Your absolutly correct. I did sign a waiver. I signed a waiver with a shop that I assumed was one of the best in the industry. And thinking that I assumed that if the issue of my fuel pump possibly going out was to come up, then they would stop everything and want to correct that. Not keep the car on the dyno and keep reving it, and bringing it up in RPM's and holding it for many minutes at a time.. Im here to make sure that Im not wrong in thinking that they SHOULD HAVE STOPPED the second they realized the fuel issue.
It doesn't matter; being lean for 2 minutes on the dyno is not going to make it spin a bearing (as was sound by the rest of the tuners in the post). It might beat up a piston, but not spin a bearing.