Taubr Unit

iTrader: (32)

Well that lc-1 seems kinda crappy. Any more input?

67RSCamaroVette

iTrader: (63)

My LC-1 has been used twice and is a POS. I've rewired the damn thing at least 3 times, (and I'm not a hack when it comes to electrical work.. everything is soldered and shrink-wrapped, high quality wire, no butt-connectors) and it's just been a pain. I've used it ONCE, and I think the WBO2 is bad already. Pulling it out every ten minutes for a free-air-calibration SUCKS too. I steer EVERYONE away from innovate's crappy products and support. It is a nice product, but the quality and reliability isn't there. Their software blows, too. I like the AFX wideband, we used it a LOT in our offroad trucks without a single problem, it's a great, simple product.

JoshuaGrooms83

iTrader: (2)

teying to get a little info so i decided to dig alittle. might as well use good old threads lol
I was wondering how the innovate MTX-L wideband does? im very interested in the MTX since its an updated unit and it has intergrated alot of stuff into the gauge.

ALso out of these 4 (lc1, AEM, NGK, and MTX) how easy is it to hook up to hptuners since thats the tunning softwasre ive decided to get.

James@ShorTuning

Another wideband alot of US customers and domestic customers don't know about is Haltech. My dyno dynamics came with a Haltech dual channel wideband and I also have one permanently installed in my camaro. I've checked the readings between it and my NGK AFX and they both read identical readings. The plus side to the Haltech is it is super small and has round analog gauges you can use to view the readings in the cabin and the AFR scale is 10-20 afr.

There is no digital output but honestly with a quality wideband with a good analog output there is no need for digital. The only time a digital output is worth while is when you have a crappy designed wideband with noisy circuitry. My NGK and Haltech analog outputs will log a completely flat lambda reading on a dyno pull once tuned. I've had Innovate LM1, LC1 and AEM widebands as well and they don't even compare to the other two I mentioned.

minytrker

iTrader: (13)

You must tune with HPT, if you have EFI Live and use a serial WB you'll never go back to analog.

I have never had an issue with any wb except my dual channel fast setup, it craps out every year and I have to get it fixed. I have lc1, lm1,lm2, fast single, fast dual and a plx and they all get the job done. One thing I do that most people dont do is I dont use my sensors forever, depending on how much tuning I do or what fuel was used I may only use a sensor for a month or so.

James@ShorTuning

The question then arises, would you rather have analog output from a more accurate wideband or the digital output of one thats not as accurate?

minytrker

iTrader: (13)

You lose signal quality in analog with ground offsets IMO. Don't matter what wb you use on a street car, it's still adjusting fuel trims with $50 o2 sensors. If its a real radical car I go off the plugs, so cheap or expensive wb plugs always override wb. I think the wb argument gets blown way out of proportion all the time.

NicD

iTrader: (7)

I don't understand why people make such a big deal out of setting up an analog I/O with the proper offsets for logging. I mean it literally takes seconds and from that point on it's dead nuts.

T/A KID

iTrader: (12)

I use a NGK AFX with NTK sensor, works awesome.

James@ShorTuning

A quality wideband that has non-noisy circuitry you don't have analog offset issues. Neither of the widebands I use have offset issues. The NGK even has a test mode on initial startup to verify readings. Does a constant stoich voltage for a few seconds as well as a MAX range and MIN range to verify it is reading across the entire spectrum. I check that on every car I hook it up into and never has it been off.

I have used many different Innovate products and AEM and all of those analog outputs were **** poor and does require serial data to log a consistent wideband reading. I had serial data logging for the innovate widebands and it didn't help with the readings being off from not being accurate. With a lambda meter that is accurate, you can rely on it's readings a little more.

I agree plug checks on higher power setups but generally my NGK agrees with the plugs in my experience fueling wise. Having an arsinal of quality gauges while still using old school plug reading gives you more quality data to base adjustments off of!

bestlude

iTrader: (4)

Aem.. I think its the most common (for obvious reasons).. they work.. I've used aem for 2 cars already and worked well. Currently running aem on my camaro aswell

Tampa Tuning

iTrader: (2)

A couple months ago, I needed to calibrate a shops wideband to determine if it was reading properly because the reading it was showing in their dyno was leaner than I was showing on my widebands. Nothing offical under the best conditions, but off the cuff test for my curiousity because I had time to play.

So to make a long story short, and although not the best application for testing, I had a little extra down time between tunes so it was time to play on my partners very modified C6.

I plugged them all into one exhaust with seperate tail clamps while doing dyno runs

My LM-1
My NGK AFX
Partners FAST
Shops Dynojet

The NGK provided the fastest reading in either directions with more stability. Great unit for $250 buck, but the sensor cost around $150s to replace.

The LM1 provided about the same AFR number, but took slightly longer to reach the numbers that the NGK reached. good unit that takes a beating. $250 bucks and about $50 bucks per sensor which seem to last me about three months it best.

Partners FAST under read (richer) than the LM1 and NGK.

Shops dyno jet crapped out from a loose wire just by chance and a replacement sensor was ordered, but in the past had read leaner than my LM1which was pretty much inline with the NGK, but slightly slower to respond.

So my experience was NGK won hands down with better reaction time to read the AFR and stability through the runs. I dont like the calibration pin that sticks out the back, but thats another topic. They should have made if once you calibrate the unit, you can push the pin in and the calibration wont change.

The LM1 which uses the same 3737 sensor as the LC1, not a bad unit but lost to the NGK hand down.

I had a LM2 and hated it. Sold it and bought the NGK.

I always keep two widebands and two sensors with me on the road if needed.

www.TampaTuning.com
Phil

minytrker

iTrader: (13)

I have a LM1 and LM2 and never had an issue with either one. I do change my sensors about once a month though. If I use one on race gas I never use it again n a street car. I have also figured out over the years that moisture or water will kill a wideband in a heart beat so you have to becarefull where you install the sensor. I think the LM2 is hit or miss seems like they either work great or they are total crap. I only use wide bands that are supported in EFI Live for serial output.
I also carry 2 wideband setups, two laptops, extra batteries, extra cables and a few other items when I go out of town. It seems like over the years started carrying more and more stuff with me.

James@ShorTuning

Never can be too prepared. I don't travel to tune anymore so I keep spare sensors and have 4 widebands to choose from if I get in a pinch. Really wanting to add an ECM Lambda Pro to the arsenal.

flattusmaximus78

iTrader: (1)

I have an innovate and hate it. 1st sensor didn't work at first. Second one worked long enoug hfor a tune and about 800 miles. When I start it up it works for a few seconds then reads 22.2. Wot also reads 22.2 or hard partial throttle. I bought it because I heard it was the best, it sucks. I calibrated it and it worked again fine for one day.

AEM ftw, easiest install and so simple. Going to order one monday.

JOHNBOY66

James go with AFM1500 from ECM. Great NTK sensor or NTK lab grade sensor and a serial output. Best of everything IMHO. I took Banish's advise and bought one. Awesome piece. I still use my AFX for little stuff.

AVB

iTrader: (9)

Hmm... Let's try this, has anyone using an AFX had any problems at all?

hcb1700

iTrader: (9)

Seems like a lot of people here have been using the LC-1, but how about those using the Innovate MTX-L (Part#3845)? I am looking for a wideband that will work with E85 and am really considering the MTX-L. Does the AFX/MTX-L read in Lambda? I think you can set up the MTX-L to read in lambda, but I'm not too sure, can somebody confirm that?

Exidous

iTrader: (11)

I too have been using the LC-1 for about three years now. Running the same sensor and it is permanently installed. Every couple months I'll do a free air cal. It has not caused me any issues. It seems to respond fast enough for a 4th gear pull.