How did you go about scaling the injectors?

 

You need to be patant, its not like there is some magical answer man at the forum, most of the users are just people like you,that are willing to share their experiances. I've posted tuning question on another forum I use and it never got answered, but 5 or 6 months later I'll see somebody else ask the same question and have an answer within in hours. Nobody that has read your thread has either had the experiance, to answer your question,or isn't willing to share that info, but I'm willing to bet more times then not, its that, nobody has had enough experiance with you issue to give you an answer they have enough confidance in it, that they're willing to share.

 

Thats where I initially got screwed up. My initial tune (I made 6 years ago) I had the injectors 60# all the way across the board. Then dialed in the VE table and everything off that.

These new injectors (160's) I initially used that spread sheet to do them. I think they were like 190 at the top of that chart. when I entered in my fuel pressure (42psi....i did lower it from 50psi) the end of the chart i believe was at like 190# I also tried setting the rate at a flat 160 across the chart, then lowered it to 155 because of the lowered fuel pressure.

What I dont understand is that it fires right up fine. Idles fine for 10-20 seconds, AFR's read 10.9:1 for the first few seconds, then moves to about 14.5: for the remaining while idling perfect. then after the 20 seconds it starts surging going from 9:1 to 16:1 super rich to lean.... and moves so fast and the squares in the histogram change also fast. The VE table isnt that rough where they'd do that.....ive tried other VE tables also.

I have no clue what tables its doing this off of. Somewhere i think there is a table i have messed up. The idle air flow ive deviated 10 numbers each way.... no results. VE table.... tried several... adding, subtracting... no results.

Is there a writeup somewhere that tells you what table it reads off of in the sequence it runs?? Like this....
1. Start up - cranking AFR table (obvious)
2. After start - after start table (obvious...with the decay and delay)
3. .......then wherever it goes from there for how long??????????????????

 

Sent ya a pm.

 

Is it doing this in open loop or is it going nuts when it goes into closed loop? I haven't looked at your file.

You want your idle cells and the ones around it to be at the same timing value. I have mine at 29. It smoothly ramps out to the other values where it drives. It comes into and goes out of idle smoothly. It always looks for 29 at and around idle. Dead smooth.

 

I just read the writeup that Hemi2slo sent me..... i have a few things messed up. I had open loop disabled (not sure why?)... I'd like to disable closed loop... I dont want the O2 sensors even referenced.. This is a turbo setup and since the O2 sensors are in the pipe preturbo... I dont know how accurate those would even be.. so scratch those.
I set closed loop enable etc. to 284 degrees. I think I see what it was doing now.. (I think). I know my VE table is wacked and I did work on the idle/low RPM cells but couldnt figure out why it was moving... If it was in closed loop that explains it... at least what im understanding of how it works.
Thanks.

 

OK.. still FAIL. Car does the same thing no matter what I do. Starts up ok, idles great for 10-15 seconds then goes into a surging fit and dies. Even if you give it 20% throttle its still surging.

From idle to 2000rpms and about 30kpa to 80 it is 14.5:1 AFR.

Anyone know what this could be?

 

Is it going lean when it's surging?

Also....have you picked up a copy of this? http://www.thetuningbook.com/

Very helpful, and will take much of the mystery out of tuning your car. Just a thought.

 

Yes it goes extreme lean to extreme rich really fast.

The book has been on back order for several months... Ive emailed them probably once every 2-3 weeks for awhile now. Know of one for sale somewhere?

 

does anyone have a copy of that book that they are willing to sell? id like to get my hands on one and they are sold out.

 

Ok this is just an off the wall thought but your turbo waste gate isn't going nuts is it? Like cycling open then closed at idle for some reason?

 

Also, upload your current tune, I've never messed with a boosted car but maybe one of the guys that has will be able to see somethin.

 

OK....This is probably WAY off-base....but are you sure that you're not having issues with your fuel pressure regulator? Just a thought.

 

When it idles smooth the regulator is fine, set as low as it will possibly go at around 42psi. When it surges it goes up and down. But I think that could be from going extreme lean to extreme rich, think ive figured this out.

I spent quite a bit of time last night dialing in the VE table at idle and up to like 15% neutral revving. IF it can get started it idles good now.
The first 4-5 seconds it starts it is pig rich and idles at 400rpms. then if it dont die it will go up to about 1000 like it should and actually idle.

One problem i think i had was an afterstart enrichment table.. multiplied fuel per ETC. So the warmer it got each time i made a change and started it would be all screwed up... I must have added to the VE table 10 times and made no difference because as the temp went up this table kept leaning it out.

I cant get it to operating temp cause it would only run for so long. after finding this table and flat-lining most of it the AFR's dropped down to usable and the thing idled like a dream. Talk a bout a fight... thats why they need to have a writeup of the sequence this whole operating system works in and what tables will affect what and when.

 

Now I have it so it starts up perfect, idles perfect..... well until it gets to about 169 degrees then it leans out and starts surging again. How many different tables affect this?

 

Hmmm. didnt do anything to it and now it fires for a second and thats it. it wont start and stay running at all. Anyone have a clue how this startup sequence works and what tables are all involved?

Edit* now its cooled off its fires instantly and runs again.... but starts out really rich and low idle. ????????? Pretty lost here.

 

Post your latest file and log. What is you base fuel pressure at?

 

Do you not know or have anyone around you locally or even within an hour or two that could drive in or fly in and get you a tune? You could also PM Frost, or Ed, or slowhawk on here. They would probably be more than willing to take a look at the tune and or change a few things for you. You could possibly also send your tune to Pat G, Slowhawk, Frost etc. and they could adjust a few things for you. I don't know how your finances are and if you are trying to avoid paying a tuner, or if your dead set on doing it yourself, I understand totally. A lot of people don't want anyone but themselves working on their car, especially if it's been modified. Good luck to you.

 

I did PM Frost... no response. Im slowly getting it though. It idles like a dream now. Just that my WB is reading 9.8:1 while doing it and the injectors reading 3.0ms.
I should figure out what its supposed to read for E85.... I was under the impression that even though stoich is 9.7 it would still read 14.7 on the WB???? Im not fully understanding the difference between gasoline and E85 tuning wise. Previously all I had done is tuned vehicles with gasoline...then changed the stoich value for E85 and that was it... and it worked. Now starting fresh w/ E85... i think i need to do some reading.

 

Is there not a conversion table for gasoline to E85?