New design 4L60E has different electronics 2008+
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New design 4L60E has different electronics 2008+ Hello,
I wasnt sure where to post this so I started here.
I thought this was an interesting problem I'm having. Hopefully I'll find the answer here and if others run into the same issue this will help them.
My current build is a 1984 C10 with a 5.3 from a 2001 1500 4x4. Im using all the harness, computer and all from the 2001 5.3. The trans was purchased off of craigslist from a guy that said it was a 2009 4L60E with 19k miles (sorry I dont remember what vehicle he said it came from. probably just a 1500).
The PCM was flashed by a local tuner here in Huntsville, AL to remove the VATS and etc to allow it to run in this vehicle.
The problem is that I'm getting two DTC's (P1018 TFP switch and P0785 3-2 shift solenoid) and the trans will not shift out of third. Not even manually. On cold start it will shift from first up to third and then stay in third untill cold again. This means that from a complete stop it will start out in third. Even if you unplug the trans harness it does the same.
First I tried replacing the 3-2 soldenoid with a new one and that made no change. Then yesterday I dropped the pan again to swap out the TFP switch and found that there is a completely different design TFP in this newer trans. It looks like they have changed the electronics around 2008 when they started using a TCU. I will post pics of the two different TFP's once I get home.
So does anybody know a cure for this issue beside swapping back to an older trans?
I wasnt sure where to post this so I started here.
I thought this was an interesting problem I'm having. Hopefully I'll find the answer here and if others run into the same issue this will help them.
My current build is a 1984 C10 with a 5.3 from a 2001 1500 4x4. Im using all the harness, computer and all from the 2001 5.3. The trans was purchased off of craigslist from a guy that said it was a 2009 4L60E with 19k miles (sorry I dont remember what vehicle he said it came from. probably just a 1500).
The PCM was flashed by a local tuner here in Huntsville, AL to remove the VATS and etc to allow it to run in this vehicle.
The problem is that I'm getting two DTC's (P1018 TFP switch and P0785 3-2 shift solenoid) and the trans will not shift out of third. Not even manually. On cold start it will shift from first up to third and then stay in third untill cold again. This means that from a complete stop it will start out in third. Even if you unplug the trans harness it does the same.
First I tried replacing the 3-2 soldenoid with a new one and that made no change. Then yesterday I dropped the pan again to swap out the TFP switch and found that there is a completely different design TFP in this newer trans. It looks like they have changed the electronics around 2008 when they started using a TCU. I will post pics of the two different TFP's once I get home.
So does anybody know a cure for this issue beside swapping back to an older trans?
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I also just submitted a question to HPTuners on there site to see if they were familiar with this and if their software could correct this issue.
How certain are you the tune is correct? Wiring is correct?
I checked AllData and the 08 4L60E has the same pinout as the 95-06, even the 3-2 solenoid
Stuck in 3rd gear sounds like limp mode, Id check the tune first
I checked AllData and the 08 4L60E has the same pinout as the 95-06, even the 3-2 solenoid
Stuck in 3rd gear sounds like limp mode, Id check the tune first
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On the tune, I went back and spoke with him after I nocited an issue. He suggested I do as I was planning for step one. Which was to check the pin out. I found it difficult to find any diagrahm information on the net for a trans that new. SO thank you very much for checking that for me. that is very helpful.
With your feedback telling me that the pin out is the same, I will contact the tuner again.
Is there any measurement that I may check on the TFP switch to see if they're not equal from the new and the old one. Because they are deffinately different.
Thank you very much Pocket for verifying the pin out!
With your feedback telling me that the pin out is the same, I will contact the tuner again.
Is there any measurement that I may check on the TFP switch to see if they're not equal from the new and the old one. Because they are deffinately different.
Thank you very much Pocket for verifying the pin out!
Last edited by AGearHead4Life; Nov 21, 2011 at 01:59 PM.
TFP code isnt easy to spot because there are several wires related to it. The 3-2 is simple because its a separate circuit. Pin S
Diagrams
3-2
4th gen
http://www.lt1swap.com/pictures/16_a...amp_switch.gif
New trans
http://www.lt1swap.com/pictures/4L60...20Controls.gif
TFP stuff
4th gen
http://www.lt1swap.com/pictures/17_a4_pnp_switch.gif
New trans
http://www.lt1swap.com/pictures/4L60...20Controls.gif
Id double check your wiring then contact the tuner
Diagrams
3-2
4th gen
http://www.lt1swap.com/pictures/16_a...amp_switch.gif
New trans
http://www.lt1swap.com/pictures/4L60...20Controls.gif
TFP stuff
4th gen
http://www.lt1swap.com/pictures/17_a4_pnp_switch.gif
New trans
http://www.lt1swap.com/pictures/4L60...20Controls.gif
Id double check your wiring then contact the tuner
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Now I'm checking to see if there are different part numbers for the '01 3-2 solenoid and the '09 3-2 solenoid. Problem is that the parts stores dont list the part for the 2009 yet.
I was thinking maybe the resistance was possibly changed in the two or something.
Part numbers I got were:
2001 3-2 Shift Solenoid
Advanced-Borg Warner #S9849 w/16 bolt pan
Oreilly-Poineer #771031
Havent found any on the '09 yet.
I was thinking maybe the resistance was possibly changed in the two or something.
Part numbers I got were:
2001 3-2 Shift Solenoid
Advanced-Borg Warner #S9849 w/16 bolt pan
Oreilly-Poineer #771031
Havent found any on the '09 yet.
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Looks like starting 2009 MY the 4L60/65/70E no longer has the fluid pressure switch, and the range sensor, was moved inside the trans. You can see the sensor in the second picture above in the original post, on the manual shaft.
attached are 2009 schematics, which will show signals ABC and P of the range sensor, passing through the trans case connector at pins FGH, J respectively.
2008 and back, the signals ABC and P came from sensor on OUTSIDE of trans, on manual shaft. I have a 2008 I have had taken apart, and just changed the output shaft on another 2008 and both of these still had the TFP sensor on the valve body.
Your options maybe change the ecm out for a 2009 and move pins so its correct
attached are 2009 schematics, which will show signals ABC and P of the range sensor, passing through the trans case connector at pins FGH, J respectively.
2008 and back, the signals ABC and P came from sensor on OUTSIDE of trans, on manual shaft. I have a 2008 I have had taken apart, and just changed the output shaft on another 2008 and both of these still had the TFP sensor on the valve body.
Your options maybe change the ecm out for a 2009 and move pins so its correct
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Busta9876 arent you LT1Swap.com? Thanks for your help a while back and now again. I had emailed you off of that site with this similar question. Thank you once again for more feedback. Its great having others to compare to now.
Joecar, are you sure about that? I see what you mean by its not in its normal location, but I figured they just moved it to the left a little there. THat one on the left is the same exact solenoid.
Joecar, are you sure about that? I see what you mean by its not in its normal location, but I figured they just moved it to the left a little there. THat one on the left is the same exact solenoid.
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I'm using a OBD2 to usb with some freeware to get my codes, but I wish it'd tell me more like what gear Im in, etc.
I spoke with the tuner again and he said he'd check but doesnt think there are any adjustments in that area. He is experienced and well known. I believe he's using HPTuners.
It does sound like its in limp mode. But I thought it would shift manually still if the trans harness was unplugged.
Any of the 2007+ New body trucks have separate ECM/TCM. The 4L60E family of transmission uses the small TCM mounted near the ECM, the 6L80E family of trans has the TCM internal to the trans, part of the valve body.
-Brendan.
Last edited by busta9876; Nov 23, 2011 at 12:56 AM.
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ahh I didn't notice that yesterday when I was looking at the schematics, it was right in front of me. now that you mention that, I remember hearing about the update to the 4L60E with no longer having the 3-2 at an ATRA Seminar I went to in St. Louis back in the spring.
Any of the 2007+ New body trucks have separate ECM/TCM. The 4L60E family of transmission uses the small TCM mounted near the ECM, the 6L80E family of trans has the TCM internal to the trans, part of the valve body.
-Brendan.
Any of the 2007+ New body trucks have separate ECM/TCM. The 4L60E family of transmission uses the small TCM mounted near the ECM, the 6L80E family of trans has the TCM internal to the trans, part of the valve body.
-Brendan.
Does anyone have an idea if this trans will work on fine with the ECU or must it have its original TCM?
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ahh I didn't notice that yesterday when I was looking at the schematics, it was right in front of me. now that you mention that, I remember hearing about the update to the 4L60E with no longer having the 3-2 at an ATRA Seminar I went to in St. Louis back in the spring.
...
...
They also added the ISS.
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Thank you guys for your feedback and comparisons.
Im going to head over to the tuner as soon as possible and have him turn on the 3-2 and TFP so the ECM isnt looking for them anymore.
Im going to head over to the tuner as soon as possible and have him turn on the 3-2 and TFP so the ECM isnt looking for them anymore.
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Alright, I just got back from the tuners shop. He turned off the 3-2 solenoid and TFP DTC's. While there, at one point we got it to shift through all four gears perfectly like it should. He then adjust the input for the rear end gear ratio to correct the speedo. Since then the trans seems to be acting weird and we are not sure what is going on. He could command it to down shift into first but it would not start out in first. Once started rolling (which is second) about 10mph I can punch it and it'll kick down into first. It would not shift into third or fourth all the way home (40 min drive). I really have no idea how or why for a short moment everything seemed to shift fine and then it disappeared.
So my next question is; does anybody have the shift pattern for the solenoids on the 2009 4l60e so that I can compare them to the previous version?
THanks again everyone for all of your feedback which has gotten me further on my trouble shooting.
HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!!
So my next question is; does anybody have the shift pattern for the solenoids on the 2009 4l60e so that I can compare them to the previous version?
THanks again everyone for all of your feedback which has gotten me further on my trouble shooting.
HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!!
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I'd also like to mention that this was the first time I've ever really felt this trans shift correctly. Usually it was always in third. So it feels good to start out in second from a dead stop now instead of third. lol And when he commanded it into first was nice. This truck will run pretty good once I get this trans right.