help with tuning and cost of tune
12-16-2011, 01:38 PM
#1
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help with tuning and cost of tune I have a 98 z that I had a 6,0 installed by a shop who shall remain nameless for now,they took out the 5.7 and swapped out and built the 6.0 to the tune of approx 6000 ,but the question is I got the car back and they told me the exhaust is to small and it'not getting enough air it needs a lid and belows ,the car is running and driving ,but with some small problems random ses brake and ars lights coming on randomly ,not to bad but every now and then just stalls ,starts right back up but for no reason stalls ,when I picked up the car I told them I'll get the exhaust done which I did with a new pypes 3 inch system ,and bought a slp lid and bellows while I'm still driving it around and runs good but for these little problems ,man who tuned the car says I'm still leaving 50hp on the table and when I get it back to him he will take care of it ,cool so yesterday I bring the car back and he tells me that it will probely will cost around 250 to retune ??? I paid 500 for the first tune NOW another 250 can any tuners or anybody else tell me if that sounds fair to put another 250 on a 500 tune
12-17-2011, 07:31 AM
#3
Was it tuned the first time for exhaust and the lid? If you have changed the hardware, why would you expect them to tune it for free for new parts that you added?
I mean let's take this to an extreme....if you get a NA car tuned, slap on a turbo kit and injectors, would you expect them to retune it for the turbo for free?
I mean let's take this to an extreme....if you get a NA car tuned, slap on a turbo kit and injectors, would you expect them to retune it for the turbo for free?
12-17-2011, 12:53 PM
#4
Lets back out of EXTREME and get REAL. Your mods do not constitute a RE-TUNE charge. A good shop will re-tune for the light mods you just added for FREE without question. Hell most shops in Texas will re-tune for life after the initial $500 dyno tune just to keep your mod purchases frequenting the shop. Its called customer service with retention as the end goal!
P.S. When people don't name the shop they leave potential customers with the same issues to deal with in the future.
P.S. When people don't name the shop they leave potential customers with the same issues to deal with in the future.
12-17-2011, 01:00 PM
#5
If they had the same mods as originally and needed a retune, I could see that. But additional parts is different.
If you go and get tires installed at a shop and then later bring them wheels, would you expect them to change the the wheels for free? Or if you get your intake changed at a shop, and then a month later bring them spark plugs and wires would you expect them to install those for free?
If you go and get tires installed at a shop and then later bring them wheels, would you expect them to change the the wheels for free? Or if you get your intake changed at a shop, and then a month later bring them spark plugs and wires would you expect them to install those for free?
12-17-2011, 01:26 PM
#6
If they had the same mods as originally and needed a retune, I could see that. But additional parts is different.
If you go and get tires installed at a shop and then later bring them wheels, would you expect them to change the the wheels for free? Or if you get your intake changed at a shop, and then a month later bring them spark plugs and wires would you expect them to install those for free?
If you go and get tires installed at a shop and then later bring them wheels, would you expect them to change the the wheels for free? Or if you get your intake changed at a shop, and then a month later bring them spark plugs and wires would you expect them to install those for free?
12-17-2011, 01:30 PM
#7
Obviously it was not running right to start with. He should have had them complete the job at the time. That would be my first point. It should have never left the shop driving like that.
But if you start adding on additional modifications, at that point you are entering in new things into the equation and giving the shop liberty to charge for additional tuning.
There is nothing dumb about it. Additional work is additional charge though. Again look at the above example. If you work for $10 hr and your boss asks you to do 20 hours of work but only pay you for 10 hours what would you think? Time is money period. In this case, they should not gotten paid the first time till the job was done.
OP I would cut my losses with that particular shop and try somewhere else. They should have never let it leave the shop like that. I can't imagine a 6.0 would need anything more than the original 5.7
But if you start adding on additional modifications, at that point you are entering in new things into the equation and giving the shop liberty to charge for additional tuning.
There is nothing dumb about it. Additional work is additional charge though. Again look at the above example. If you work for $10 hr and your boss asks you to do 20 hours of work but only pay you for 10 hours what would you think? Time is money period. In this case, they should not gotten paid the first time till the job was done.
OP I would cut my losses with that particular shop and try somewhere else. They should have never let it leave the shop like that. I can't imagine a 6.0 would need anything more than the original 5.7
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12-17-2011, 01:32 PM
#8
If they had the same mods as originally and needed a retune, I could see that. But additional parts is different.
If you go and get tires installed at a shop and then later bring them wheels, would you expect them to change the the wheels for free? Or if you get your intake changed at a shop, and then a month later bring them spark plugs and wires would you expect them to install those for free?
If you go and get tires installed at a shop and then later bring them wheels, would you expect them to change the the wheels for free? Or if you get your intake changed at a shop, and then a month later bring them spark plugs and wires would you expect them to install those for free?
Tell that shop owner your situation. Let him know what his competitors are offering (call to confirm). They don't budge tell them to GO FISH!
12-17-2011, 05:57 PM
#9
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2TR - you obviously don't tune for a living or own a shop...
It takes time to even strap a car down again and make the pulls it would take to retune it... and even with the seemingly minor mods, the tune would need some time put into it to do it correctly - fueling tables would need completely redone... then the timing tables... Time is money when you are in business.
When I was tuning regularly, I would have charged $450 for a first time tune and then if you change parts and need to go back on the dyno (whether that was a week later or a year), it was $250... I would tell people that right up front - do all the mods you can at once to save tuning money... Hell, even straight dyno time is over $100 an hour at most places... dynos and tuning software ain't cheap!
Now, that said, it is obvious that the shop didn't do the job right the first time and was giving him the run-around on finishing it... makes me doubt it would ever be right...
It takes time to even strap a car down again and make the pulls it would take to retune it... and even with the seemingly minor mods, the tune would need some time put into it to do it correctly - fueling tables would need completely redone... then the timing tables... Time is money when you are in business.
When I was tuning regularly, I would have charged $450 for a first time tune and then if you change parts and need to go back on the dyno (whether that was a week later or a year), it was $250... I would tell people that right up front - do all the mods you can at once to save tuning money... Hell, even straight dyno time is over $100 an hour at most places... dynos and tuning software ain't cheap!
Now, that said, it is obvious that the shop didn't do the job right the first time and was giving him the run-around on finishing it... makes me doubt it would ever be right...
12-23-2011, 04:01 AM
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I don't think re-tunes should be free. However, fixing a screwed up tune should be, even if the guy added an air lid. Sounds like the shop was trying to make it the customs fault for a crappy tune. There are two sides to every story, but it sounds like they led him to believe that if he purchased a lid and bellows all would be kittens and butterflies.
My story, I'll make it real short. I paid a shop 500.00 to tune my Corvette for a cam swap I did. Then I paid them 500.00 again to tune it for the new heads, seemed perfectly reasonable to me. My car never ran that good and I always thought it was because of the ECU was a '97 and I heard they were just difficult to tune. I bought the software and posted on HP Tuners, a brilliant guy looked at my tune and told me it was crap. Then he taught me how to fix it, I'm forever thankful for him. My car used to stall and was dangerously lean. People protect the art of tuning because they're trying to feed their families, the downside is the general public suffer from terrible tunes and smoked engines.
Of course this isn't all tuners, don't read into my post. It's so easy to be taken advantage of in the tuning world. Over the years, on these sites I've actually watched a guy talk about buying the software and not having a clue to today he owns a dyno-shop. I always wonder how he pulls it off, maybe he's just really smart or learns really fast. The guy that taught me has been in electronics and cars since the 60's, he's an absolute genius. I was extremely lucky to find a guy willing to share his knowledge with me.
I typed all that to say, try to find a mentor and buy the software. You put 6k in it, what's another $649 bucks? You will probably get pleasure out of tuning it yourself too. I was so proud of my AFR I posted a screen shot.
Thank you Bill, I'll never forget all your help.
My story, I'll make it real short. I paid a shop 500.00 to tune my Corvette for a cam swap I did. Then I paid them 500.00 again to tune it for the new heads, seemed perfectly reasonable to me. My car never ran that good and I always thought it was because of the ECU was a '97 and I heard they were just difficult to tune. I bought the software and posted on HP Tuners, a brilliant guy looked at my tune and told me it was crap. Then he taught me how to fix it, I'm forever thankful for him. My car used to stall and was dangerously lean. People protect the art of tuning because they're trying to feed their families, the downside is the general public suffer from terrible tunes and smoked engines.
Of course this isn't all tuners, don't read into my post. It's so easy to be taken advantage of in the tuning world. Over the years, on these sites I've actually watched a guy talk about buying the software and not having a clue to today he owns a dyno-shop. I always wonder how he pulls it off, maybe he's just really smart or learns really fast. The guy that taught me has been in electronics and cars since the 60's, he's an absolute genius. I was extremely lucky to find a guy willing to share his knowledge with me.
I typed all that to say, try to find a mentor and buy the software. You put 6k in it, what's another $649 bucks? You will probably get pleasure out of tuning it yourself too. I was so proud of my AFR I posted a screen shot.
Thank you Bill, I'll never forget all your help.
