Learning HPTuners after modifications??
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Learning HPTuners after modifications?? Hello all,
I am in the process of putting an LS1 into my E36 four door and decided I would modify it while it is out of the car before starting it up inside the new chassis. I was considering getting a frost tune and then eventually a dyno tune but for the cost of both of those I could purchase the HPTuners system and tune it myself. I am not concerned with learning the software as I will take my time and am very mechanically inclined and have a pretty basic understanding of tuning physics to get me started. I am confident that I can eventually start tuning fairly well. With that being said, I have a few questions:
Modifications are: LT headers, LS6 intake, 224r cam, pushrods, springs, LW flywheel, 85mm MAF, CAI, and HV oil pump
1. The engine will be started for the first time in my car, with my modifications. I will use the stock tune to just get it running and break in the cam a little bit, is this bad? I will do no driving, just idling to get things warmed up.
2. Will it be too steep of a learning curve to try to tune on an engine that is already modified? I have no baseline for my learning other than the stock tune file. Is it very bad to learn to use HPTuners on a modified car?
3. If I buy an HPTuners, how much does frost or some of the others charge to send a baseline file for my modifications and let me work from there, so it wont be such a large delta? Do they even do this? I heard you can email frost the tune and datalog and he can help with it, is this free, I can't find much info on this?
4. Will the .bin repository have something useful I can use as a baseline instead of option 3?
5. Will I destroy my engine by doing any of the above things? Should I get a mail order tune first, then purchase HPTuners later on down the line when funds permit?
I am really looking forward to tuning my own vehicle and I really enjoy reading about it/understanding the physics and would like to get started, but I do not know if this is the best way (for me or my engine) to get started into tuning with HPT?
Are there measures I can take (ie, overly richen mixture, retard timing, etc) that will allow me to dial in a tune without possibly destroying my engine? (Just looking to see if this is possible, main goal is to learn WITHOUT destroying my engine in the process)
Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated! Thank you.
I am in the process of putting an LS1 into my E36 four door and decided I would modify it while it is out of the car before starting it up inside the new chassis. I was considering getting a frost tune and then eventually a dyno tune but for the cost of both of those I could purchase the HPTuners system and tune it myself. I am not concerned with learning the software as I will take my time and am very mechanically inclined and have a pretty basic understanding of tuning physics to get me started. I am confident that I can eventually start tuning fairly well. With that being said, I have a few questions:
Modifications are: LT headers, LS6 intake, 224r cam, pushrods, springs, LW flywheel, 85mm MAF, CAI, and HV oil pump
1. The engine will be started for the first time in my car, with my modifications. I will use the stock tune to just get it running and break in the cam a little bit, is this bad? I will do no driving, just idling to get things warmed up.
2. Will it be too steep of a learning curve to try to tune on an engine that is already modified? I have no baseline for my learning other than the stock tune file. Is it very bad to learn to use HPTuners on a modified car?
3. If I buy an HPTuners, how much does frost or some of the others charge to send a baseline file for my modifications and let me work from there, so it wont be such a large delta? Do they even do this? I heard you can email frost the tune and datalog and he can help with it, is this free, I can't find much info on this?
4. Will the .bin repository have something useful I can use as a baseline instead of option 3?
5. Will I destroy my engine by doing any of the above things? Should I get a mail order tune first, then purchase HPTuners later on down the line when funds permit?
I am really looking forward to tuning my own vehicle and I really enjoy reading about it/understanding the physics and would like to get started, but I do not know if this is the best way (for me or my engine) to get started into tuning with HPT?
Are there measures I can take (ie, overly richen mixture, retard timing, etc) that will allow me to dial in a tune without possibly destroying my engine? (Just looking to see if this is possible, main goal is to learn WITHOUT destroying my engine in the process)
Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated! Thank you.
Staging Lane
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 56
Likes: 2
From: Berlin, CT
Hmmm...
The modifications you list do not require a complicated tune, or a software upgrade to a 2 bar system or anything. Can you learn to use HP Tuners...? Definitely. I found the two most useful pieces of education for me were Dan Maslic's "Master EFI Tuner" and Greg Banish's Beginner DVD. In your case, the advanced DVD is not going to be as much of a value. The forums are of limited value - it's more like the blind leading the blind, with most people giving very short or incomplete answers and sometimes just adding to the confusion - certainly the frustration.
I can't respond to part of this, because I don't know what an "E36" is. If it's a completely different car that never had an LS1 installed in it, the first question you would need to ask is what ECM are you planning to use? That will, in a large part, determine the expense and complexity of the job.
The ECM will "learn" only to a certain extent, by adding long term fuel trims and knock retard, but it's not a good idea to allow the motor to stay in this mode for a long time (thousands of miles) or under any high-load situations.
There was someone on the forum not so long ago doing a mail order tune for about $150 (?). New Jersey. You ship your ECM to them and they install the tune, then ship it back. Again, depending on how much of a difference you are talking about here (LS1 - E36?) you might want to let them get it into the ball park and then fine tune it yourself.
Even if the .bin repository has something useful, you will need a tool to program the ECM, and one that's licensed to the ECM, so you'll still need an MPVI device.
From reading your post, I think you're a methodical, careful guy with the right aptitude. If you buy yourself the right education and take your time, you'll be up to speed in a few weeks, and then you'll have the tools and the knowledge to change it again and again if you make other mods.
Jon
The modifications you list do not require a complicated tune, or a software upgrade to a 2 bar system or anything. Can you learn to use HP Tuners...? Definitely. I found the two most useful pieces of education for me were Dan Maslic's "Master EFI Tuner" and Greg Banish's Beginner DVD. In your case, the advanced DVD is not going to be as much of a value. The forums are of limited value - it's more like the blind leading the blind, with most people giving very short or incomplete answers and sometimes just adding to the confusion - certainly the frustration.
I can't respond to part of this, because I don't know what an "E36" is. If it's a completely different car that never had an LS1 installed in it, the first question you would need to ask is what ECM are you planning to use? That will, in a large part, determine the expense and complexity of the job.
The ECM will "learn" only to a certain extent, by adding long term fuel trims and knock retard, but it's not a good idea to allow the motor to stay in this mode for a long time (thousands of miles) or under any high-load situations.
There was someone on the forum not so long ago doing a mail order tune for about $150 (?). New Jersey. You ship your ECM to them and they install the tune, then ship it back. Again, depending on how much of a difference you are talking about here (LS1 - E36?) you might want to let them get it into the ball park and then fine tune it yourself.
Even if the .bin repository has something useful, you will need a tool to program the ECM, and one that's licensed to the ECM, so you'll still need an MPVI device.
From reading your post, I think you're a methodical, careful guy with the right aptitude. If you buy yourself the right education and take your time, you'll be up to speed in a few weeks, and then you'll have the tools and the knowledge to change it again and again if you make other mods.
Jon
