Street Tune vs Dyno?? Pros/Cons
03-03-2012, 02:26 PM
#21
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Highland, MI
Posts: 1,366
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
dyno tuning is good for WOT, cam, turbo and high hp cars. For your basic street car with bolt-ons, the dyno isn't worth a whole lot. Except dialing WOT better.
03-03-2012, 08:50 PM
#22
Teching In
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Either one, you have to use a wideband. You can set up your HP Tuners to capture data with least hits.
1) What I like about street tuning, I capture AFR data in multiple gears. It allows me to view how the AFR is thinning out about its breathing more air.
2) I can do steady state driving in mulitple gears.
3) With automatics, I first upload the tranny configuration, so the owner/drive can get a couple hours of driving for comfort on the new tranny settings.
4) saves the owner money
5) I can get the same data as dyno tuning
Dyno tuning
1) big packages should be dyno and street tuned
2) saves me ALOT of time
3) no traffic issues and is safer.
4) you get a piece of paper after the tune saying how much HP you have.
1) What I like about street tuning, I capture AFR data in multiple gears. It allows me to view how the AFR is thinning out about its breathing more air.
2) I can do steady state driving in mulitple gears.
3) With automatics, I first upload the tranny configuration, so the owner/drive can get a couple hours of driving for comfort on the new tranny settings.
4) saves the owner money
5) I can get the same data as dyno tuning
Dyno tuning
1) big packages should be dyno and street tuned
2) saves me ALOT of time
3) no traffic issues and is safer.
4) you get a piece of paper after the tune saying how much HP you have.
For a certain part throttle point for example, how do you tell how close to MBT you are when street tuning?
For me, I tend to think the only good way to dial in timing is with a dyno, which is a large part of tuning. Without out this are we just making educated, and sometimes not so educated guesses as to what sort of timing to run?
Cheers
Benno
03-04-2012, 10:20 AM
#23
With HP Tuners, you can go into the VCM controls at add or subtract timing while the car is driving. Tough to do if you are driving and tuning, but if you are tuning in the passenger seat, the driver can hold the car at a steady RPM as you add or subtract timing. While doing that you can look at your delivered torque table to see if you are gaining or losing torque.
the key is for the driver to hold a steady throttle on a straight away for 15-20 seconds at a time.
the key is for the driver to hold a steady throttle on a straight away for 15-20 seconds at a time.
03-04-2012, 08:24 PM
#24
Teching In
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
With HP Tuners, you can go into the VCM controls at add or subtract timing while the car is driving. Tough to do if you are driving and tuning, but if you are tuning in the passenger seat, the driver can hold the car at a steady RPM as you add or subtract timing. While doing that you can look at your delivered torque table to see if you are gaining or losing torque.
the key is for the driver to hold a steady throttle on a straight away for 15-20 seconds at a time.
the key is for the driver to hold a steady throttle on a straight away for 15-20 seconds at a time.
From my understanding there is a maximum torque timing table in the pcm that is used for torque calculations etc, but this table isn't necessarily correct, especially once we start modifying our cars etc.
I have heard of people looking at what timing values create the most vacuum for certain throttle positions to determine what their optimum timing should be, but I do not know how accurate this method is or if it works at all??
I would love to hear of other street tuners methods for dialling in timing, especially part throttle.
Cheers
Benno
03-06-2012, 09:14 AM
#25
Teching In
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
First need to read the "start scanning" thread, then dial in your LTFTs and then STFTs. Once this is completed using a Wideband wired through either the AC pressure switch or EGR I log some wide open throttle pulls and look for knock. Once timing is squared. I check for lean/rich areas. Then I pull timing for spray and do the wide open pulls again with a small shot and work up.
08-19-2012, 01:56 PM
#26
FormerVendor
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Tampa
Posts: 264
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Corvette Camaro GTO Truck Tuner in Tampa I don't think viewing the delivered torque table is an accurate way of determining whether you are making more or less torque.
From my understanding there is a maximum torque timing table in the pcm that is used for torque calculations etc, but this table isn't necessarily correct, especially once we start modifying our cars etc.
I have heard of people looking at what timing values create the most vacuum for certain throttle positions to determine what their optimum timing should be, but I do not know how accurate this method is or if it works at all??
I would love to hear of other street tuners methods for dialling in timing, especially part throttle.
Im finding that the delivered torque table on HP Tuner is slighter lower that actual dyno tables, but if you use that raw table from the PID it's self, it used as an indicator to are progressing either foward or backwards .
Cheers
Benno
From my understanding there is a maximum torque timing table in the pcm that is used for torque calculations etc, but this table isn't necessarily correct, especially once we start modifying our cars etc.
I have heard of people looking at what timing values create the most vacuum for certain throttle positions to determine what their optimum timing should be, but I do not know how accurate this method is or if it works at all??
I would love to hear of other street tuners methods for dialling in timing, especially part throttle.
Im finding that the delivered torque table on HP Tuner is slighter lower that actual dyno tables, but if you use that raw table from the PID it's self, it used as an indicator to are progressing either foward or backwards .
Cheers
Benno
You mention you can get the same data as dyno tuning??
For a certain part throttle point for example, how do you tell how close to MBT you are when street tuning?
For me, I tend to think the only good way to dial in timing is with a dyno, which is a large part of tuning. Without out this are we just making educated, and sometimes not so educated guesses as to what sort of timing to run?
Cheers
Benno
For a certain part throttle point for example, how do you tell how close to MBT you are when street tuning?
For me, I tend to think the only good way to dial in timing is with a dyno, which is a large part of tuning. Without out this are we just making educated, and sometimes not so educated guesses as to what sort of timing to run?
Cheers
Benno
My approach to tuning doesnt change if the vehicle is on the dyno, or the street. I make a determination on the power of the car after talking with the owner and the expectation. If I dyno tune the vehicle, I still street tuning it afterwards. I like the dyno, but the low end under none load with actual vehicle move is important.
www.TampaTuning.com
great tuning at a great price
Phil
Last edited by Tampa Tuning; 08-19-2012 at 09:03 PM.
08-19-2012, 06:50 PM
#27
9 Second Club
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: on the dyno tuning in MD
Posts: 2,583
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
The best way is a combination of both (and some cars, the track too) - and always with a wideband. The only way to really dial the timing in correctly is on the dyno - there is no other way to ensure the entire timing curve is optimized. That being said, an experienced tuner will know what most common combinations will want for timing, because he has seen many of them. Something uncommon has to go on the dyno to optimize timing.
08-19-2012, 07:34 PM
#28
My approach to tuning doesnt change if the vehicle is on the dont, or the street. I more make a determination on the power of the car. If I dyno tune the vehicle, I still street tuning it afterwards. I like the dyno, but the low end under not load with actual vehicle is important.
www.TampaTuning.com
great tuning at a great price
Phil
www.TampaTuning.com
great tuning at a great price
Phil
The best way is a combination of both (and some cars, the track too) - and always with a wideband. The only way to really dial the timing in correctly is on the dyno - there is no other way to ensure the entire timing curve is optimized. That being said, an experienced tuner will know what most common combinations will want for timing, because he has seen many of them. Something uncommon has to go on the dyno to optimize timing.
08-19-2012, 09:01 PM
#29
FormerVendor
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Tampa
Posts: 264
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was at a shop last night till 5 am getting caught up.
you know how you log on answer a couple quick questions, and read your thread a day later and say man my spelling is going south fast lol
08-20-2012, 12:38 AM
#31
in a forced induction car I would do it on the street. I don't even log my car when im making dyno pulls anymore because all it wants me do is pull fuel out since its not loading the motor as hard as it would be on the street. Soon as it comes off the rollers and re log it on the road everything is on par
08-20-2012, 05:38 AM
#32
9 Second Club
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: on the dyno tuning in MD
Posts: 2,583
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
in a forced induction car I would do it on the street. I don't even log my car when im making dyno pulls anymore because all it wants me do is pull fuel out since its not loading the motor as hard as it would be on the street. Soon as it comes off the rollers and re log it on the road everything is on par
08-20-2012, 07:28 AM
#33
With HP Tuners, you can go into the VCM controls at add or subtract timing while the car is driving. Tough to do if you are driving and tuning, but if you are tuning in the passenger seat, the driver can hold the car at a steady RPM as you add or subtract timing. While doing that you can look at your delivered torque table to see if you are gaining or losing torque.
the key is for the driver to hold a steady throttle on a straight away for 15-20 seconds at a time.
the key is for the driver to hold a steady throttle on a straight away for 15-20 seconds at a time.
of road and guarantee that at this one set distance is exactly flat, the resistance will be equal throughout, temps ect then you will be good for that length of road. But then what does that really do...
