Can I run a wideband instead of a front o2 sensor?
Can I run a wideband instead of a front o2 sensor? Saw a thread about this and it answered part of my question but no entirely.
Im planning on tuning soon but my o2sensors keep giving me an SES light. At first i got a SES code for the pass side, so i just sucked it up and bought a brand new denso o2 now both o2s are throwing codes -_______-, so can i leave them turned off or do i need to return them on? What would be my best solution for this? Thanks in advance guys.
Im planning on tuning soon but my o2sensors keep giving me an SES light. At first i got a SES code for the pass side, so i just sucked it up and bought a brand new denso o2 now both o2s are throwing codes -_______-, so can i leave them turned off or do i need to return them on? What would be my best solution for this? Thanks in advance guys.
Yes you need to run them. This is what your PCM uses to determine fueling for the car.
If you are tuning then yes if you are in Open loop then you can run the wideband their to tune the car but it should not be a permanent solution.
If you are tuning then yes if you are in Open loop then you can run the wideband their to tune the car but it should not be a permanent solution.
Buy an LM2, or a pair of LC1's
you can set up the outputs to be used as a narrowband output
I did it for years on my Camaro before ditching the stock pcm for the Holley EFI system
basically, the LM1/Lc1 wideband sensor can be setup to output a 0.100v~1.100v signal just like the stock o2's will do
then you have the benefits of a wideband's accuracy with the stock pcm.
you can set up the outputs to be used as a narrowband output
I did it for years on my Camaro before ditching the stock pcm for the Holley EFI system
basically, the LM1/Lc1 wideband sensor can be setup to output a 0.100v~1.100v signal just like the stock o2's will do
then you have the benefits of a wideband's accuracy with the stock pcm.
Buy an LM2, or a pair of LC1's
you can set up the outputs to be used as a narrowband output
I did it for years on my Camaro before ditching the stock pcm for the Holley EFI system
basically, the LM1/Lc1 wideband sensor can be setup to output a 0.100v~1.100v signal just like the stock o2's will do
then you have the benefits of a wideband's accuracy with the stock pcm.
you can set up the outputs to be used as a narrowband output
I did it for years on my Camaro before ditching the stock pcm for the Holley EFI system
basically, the LM1/Lc1 wideband sensor can be setup to output a 0.100v~1.100v signal just like the stock o2's will do
then you have the benefits of a wideband's accuracy with the stock pcm.
side note, why does it say that you're banned?
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Yup, its a given im trying to avoid wasting time and more money on more o2s. Thanks anyways.
Buy an LM2, or a pair of LC1's
you can set up the outputs to be used as a narrowband output
I did it for years on my Camaro before ditching the stock pcm for the Holley EFI system
basically, the LM1/Lc1 wideband sensor can be setup to output a 0.100v~1.100v signal just like the stock o2's will do
then you have the benefits of a wideband's accuracy with the stock pcm.
you can set up the outputs to be used as a narrowband output
I did it for years on my Camaro before ditching the stock pcm for the Holley EFI system
basically, the LM1/Lc1 wideband sensor can be setup to output a 0.100v~1.100v signal just like the stock o2's will do
then you have the benefits of a wideband's accuracy with the stock pcm.
Ill probably just end up going speed density.
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TECH Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2002
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From: So.Cal.
The Innovate LC-1, LM-1, LM-2 have two outputs: wideband analog voltage and narrowband analog voltage (they also have a serial comms output, but that's beside the point)...
if you wire the narrowband output to an old O2S plug, you can plug it into your harness and the Innovate wideband will drive the PCM's O2S inputs... i.e. it produces the correct switching narrowband signal.
if you wire the narrowband output to an old O2S plug, you can plug it into your harness and the Innovate wideband will drive the PCM's O2S inputs... i.e. it produces the correct switching narrowband signal.
I prefer open loop with headers. When I still had my O2s they would average 14.7 after some work, but the AFR would swing from 13.2-15.7 all the time. If it's real hot or cold it would go even richer or leaner. Went OL and never looked back. Good luck.
as a long time tuner and somebody who helped develop tuning software, I can tell you that open loop on a daily driver is not a good idea in general.
why not fix the real issue...get a better seal on the O2's and get an o2 sensor with a better heating element
the problem isnt that theres too much heat, its usually that there isnt enough heat because of the nature of the headers
vehicles with catalytic converters typically dont suffer(or dont suffer *** badly) from that issue as the catalytic converter helps hold in the heat that the o2 sensor needs to operate correctly
also, a slip fit header doesnt seal correctly and you lose heat and exhaust from the seams...as small as it might seem...its still a loss of heat.
it gets exaggerated by stainless or aluminum exhaust as that is not as good at keeping heat inside the pipes..
get a coated header and suddenly the problem goes away as the heat is help in the exhaust longer
the stock O2 sensors rely on exhaust heat to operate properly
^^^ mind=blown
I had no idea that heat had anything to do with it. Ha learn something new everyday.
So I also have wanted to do a wideband, so I ask do I just buy a wideband kit and put it in my front o2's? I don't think I have rear o2's but also haven't been under there to look. I kind of understand the using a wideband setup to run as a stock one but better accuracy. But what about still using it as a wideband why can't he if he has one on both sides? I must be missing something im sure
I had no idea that heat had anything to do with it. Ha learn something new everyday.
So I also have wanted to do a wideband, so I ask do I just buy a wideband kit and put it in my front o2's? I don't think I have rear o2's but also haven't been under there to look. I kind of understand the using a wideband setup to run as a stock one but better accuracy. But what about still using it as a wideband why can't he if he has one on both sides? I must be missing something im sure
yes, you can use a wideband sensor/controller and have it output to the stock pcm as a narrowband... I did this for almost a year
Buy an LM2
set up both outputs to do 0.100v~1.100 volts with the stoich value at .450, or 500, or 550, or whatever it ends up being.. you can set teh low value to 100mv and just push the high vale until the stoic crossing point ends up at 450mv
in your tune, make sure you set the o2 switch points to that value, whatever it may be
the output of the LM2 will connect to the stock o2 connectors...just 2 wires.. the High side and the low side, not the ground or the power
your LM2 ground will go to the battery, your LM2 power will go to a key on hot while cranking 12v source
you can take the output of the wideband that is going to your pcm, and split it to hp tuners...Just the high side, the low side only goes to the o2 sensor connector
and for people who dont understand high/low side... that the signal output and the signal ground
all of this will work with any wideband that you can set the output to be a certain voltage range
I just used the LM2 in my example because its a reasonably priced wideband with a dual sensor option and each sensor has its own set of outputs.
Ran my car for about a year with an LM2 wideband using it to simulate a narrowband
Buy an LM2
set up both outputs to do 0.100v~1.100 volts with the stoich value at .450, or 500, or 550, or whatever it ends up being.. you can set teh low value to 100mv and just push the high vale until the stoic crossing point ends up at 450mv
in your tune, make sure you set the o2 switch points to that value, whatever it may be
the output of the LM2 will connect to the stock o2 connectors...just 2 wires.. the High side and the low side, not the ground or the power
your LM2 ground will go to the battery, your LM2 power will go to a key on hot while cranking 12v source
you can take the output of the wideband that is going to your pcm, and split it to hp tuners...Just the high side, the low side only goes to the o2 sensor connector
and for people who dont understand high/low side... that the signal output and the signal ground
all of this will work with any wideband that you can set the output to be a certain voltage range
I just used the LM2 in my example because its a reasonably priced wideband with a dual sensor option and each sensor has its own set of outputs.
Ran my car for about a year with an LM2 wideband using it to simulate a narrowband
Saw a thread about this and it answered part of my question but no entirely.
Im planning on tuning soon but my o2sensors keep giving me an SES light. At first i got a SES code for the pass side, so i just sucked it up and bought a brand new denso o2 now both o2s are throwing codes -_______-, so can i leave them turned off or do i need to return them on? What would be my best solution for this? Thanks in advance guys.
Im planning on tuning soon but my o2sensors keep giving me an SES light. At first i got a SES code for the pass side, so i just sucked it up and bought a brand new denso o2 now both o2s are throwing codes -_______-, so can i leave them turned off or do i need to return them on? What would be my best solution for this? Thanks in advance guys.
I have fixed a few this way
its whether you use the MAF or not....
I think you were thinking of open loop...which I highly recommend against
its also not expensive or complicated...
LM2 dual channel and 2 sensors
wire signal wires to the o2 sensor connectors, wire power and ground to 12v key on source and ground to the battery...Very simple
An open loop car runs smoother and more consistently than with the O2s. Plus you don't have to worry a sensor going bad and making the car run poorly. And the exhaust sound when cruising is an even exhaust note, unlike the oscillating high tone to low tone as the O2s are switching rich to lean, rich to lean...
Another benefit is it's free! You don't need dual widebands ($400) or to coat your headers ($250). That $650 you save can be spent on more worthwhile things.
Dan
there were just as many(if not more) problems, its just back then...a lot more people know how to work on their cars and a lot more maintenance had to be done to keep it running well...I know... I've owned several carbureted cars
It also depends on what you consider "a problem"
while you think there may not be a problem, you should think about the ones you cant see. engine wear and tear is greater on an open loop car because its unable to correct for changing conditions..theres a big difference tearing down a 100,000 mile motor that has closed loop control vs one that does not.
and I'll take it you've never heard Blower oscilation on a carb'd car with an 8-71 or a 10-71....there are some things you cannot fix with a carburetor
An open loop car runs smoother and more consistently than with the O2s. Plus you don't have to worry a sensor going bad and making the car run poorly. And the exhaust sound when cruising is an even exhaust note, unlike the oscillating high tone to low tone as the O2s are switching rich to lean, rich to lean...
Runs smoother is a totally different opinion....depends on what your definition of smooth is....
and you are right, if a sensor fails, things tend to not run correctly(and that goes for any sensor on the car)
but you also cant get the Fuel mileage with a Carburetor that you can with Fuel injection...it was half the reason for the industry switching from Carb to EFI
Another benefit is it's free! You don't need dual widebands ($400) or to coat your headers ($250). That $650 you save can be spent on more worthwhile things.
Dan
Dan