lets talk about idle tuning!
12-11-2012, 10:49 PM
#1
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lets talk about idle tuning! Well as a guy that decided to learn to tune myself i find myself getting to what i believe is the hardest part, the idle and return to idle. my cam is fairly large (236/245 on 110icl) but my drivability is pretty good as is. the car idles well right around 875rpm with a 15.0 afr. my questions for the actual tuners are
1) does adding timing at idle make for a more stable idle?
2) is a lean idle more stable?
3) i've heard people claim that lope can be "tuned" out. if this is true what makes a car lope more/less? (i'm assuming it timing but?)
4) can anyone explain what the throttle cracker/ throttle follower tables do and when they apply?
thanks for any info
1) does adding timing at idle make for a more stable idle?
2) is a lean idle more stable?
3) i've heard people claim that lope can be "tuned" out. if this is true what makes a car lope more/less? (i'm assuming it timing but?)
4) can anyone explain what the throttle cracker/ throttle follower tables do and when they apply?
thanks for any info
12-12-2012, 05:21 AM
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1) to a point
2) to a point (seeing a trend here?)
3) adding timing will take a bit of the lope out sometimes. With all of these, it depends on the combination. There is usually a sweet spot for air, fuel and timing where they will be happy. How big that spot is depends on a lot of variables (cam overlap mainly). It takes some effort to find it...
4) throttle cracker and follower pretty much do what the name says - cracker adds air (as if you were keeping the throttle cracked open) when activated. Follower adds air after throttle movement (i.e. when you quickly let off the throttle). The key to both of them is when they are activated, how much air they add, the magnitude of decay when deactivated, and delays... You are correct that idle tuning is the hardest part of tuning...
When you get ready to fine tune the idle, how about you plan a trip down with the wife, and we can work on it? I could use a break from diapers and formula LOL!
2) to a point (seeing a trend here?)
3) adding timing will take a bit of the lope out sometimes. With all of these, it depends on the combination. There is usually a sweet spot for air, fuel and timing where they will be happy. How big that spot is depends on a lot of variables (cam overlap mainly). It takes some effort to find it...
4) throttle cracker and follower pretty much do what the name says - cracker adds air (as if you were keeping the throttle cracked open) when activated. Follower adds air after throttle movement (i.e. when you quickly let off the throttle). The key to both of them is when they are activated, how much air they add, the magnitude of decay when deactivated, and delays... You are correct that idle tuning is the hardest part of tuning...
When you get ready to fine tune the idle, how about you plan a trip down with the wife, and we can work on it? I could use a break from diapers and formula LOL!
12-12-2012, 10:16 PM
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1) to a point
2) to a point (seeing a trend here?)
3) adding timing will take a bit of the lope out sometimes. With all of these, it depends on the combination. There is usually a sweet spot for air, fuel and timing where they will be happy. How big that spot is depends on a lot of variables (cam overlap mainly). It takes some effort to find it...
4) throttle cracker and follower pretty much do what the name says - cracker adds air (as if you were keeping the throttle cracked open) when activated. Follower adds air after throttle movement (i.e. when you quickly let off the throttle). The key to both of them is when they are activated, how much air they add, the magnitude of decay when deactivated, and delays... You are correct that idle tuning is the hardest part of tuning...
When you get ready to fine tune the idle, how about you plan a trip down with the wife, and we can work on it? I could use a break from diapers and formula LOL!
2) to a point (seeing a trend here?)
3) adding timing will take a bit of the lope out sometimes. With all of these, it depends on the combination. There is usually a sweet spot for air, fuel and timing where they will be happy. How big that spot is depends on a lot of variables (cam overlap mainly). It takes some effort to find it...
4) throttle cracker and follower pretty much do what the name says - cracker adds air (as if you were keeping the throttle cracked open) when activated. Follower adds air after throttle movement (i.e. when you quickly let off the throttle). The key to both of them is when they are activated, how much air they add, the magnitude of decay when deactivated, and delays... You are correct that idle tuning is the hardest part of tuning...
When you get ready to fine tune the idle, how about you plan a trip down with the wife, and we can work on it? I could use a break from diapers and formula LOL!
Thanks for the info. I'm hoping to have it back together in a week or so. We would like to make the trip and see the little guy anyway
My friend above has been tutoring me for the last 4 months or so. So far it really has gone very well and I'm glad I took his advice to pick up the software
12-13-2012, 07:52 AM
#5
Cracker & Follower can drive you a little crazy figuring out how they play. Best to log & see when they are enabled & disabled.
Rolling idle may come into play as well depending on the OS.
Idle is very subjective, I prefer as smooth as possible with a very clean crisp return to idle from throttle blips. When I attended a Tuning class the instructor had his over/under speed timing tables to -8 & +8, if you like a chop chop try that.
Rolling idle may come into play as well depending on the OS.
Idle is very subjective, I prefer as smooth as possible with a very clean crisp return to idle from throttle blips. When I attended a Tuning class the instructor had his over/under speed timing tables to -8 & +8, if you like a chop chop try that.
12-13-2012, 09:48 AM
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Cracker & Follower can drive you a little crazy figuring out how they play. Best to log & see when they are enabled & disabled.
Rolling idle may come into play as well depending on the OS.
Idle is very subjective, I prefer as smooth as possible with a very clean crisp return to idle from throttle blips. When I attended a Tuning class the instructor had his over/under speed timing tables to -8 & +8, if you like a chop chop try that.
Rolling idle may come into play as well depending on the OS.
Idle is very subjective, I prefer as smooth as possible with a very clean crisp return to idle from throttle blips. When I attended a Tuning class the instructor had his over/under speed timing tables to -8 & +8, if you like a chop chop try that.
12-13-2012, 12:33 PM
#7
Then add the 102mm TB into the mix!
When tuning the idle & blips it really helps to disable the nannies such as the over/under speed timing tables. Try to get as stable as possible that way, that helps to find best idle timing or most stable as well as getting the idle airflow tables correct.
When tuning the idle & blips it really helps to disable the nannies such as the over/under speed timing tables. Try to get as stable as possible that way, that helps to find best idle timing or most stable as well as getting the idle airflow tables correct.
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12-13-2012, 01:48 PM
#8
I don't know what sort of tuner you have, but in hpt you can play around with timing at idle live on the fly without having to shut off, flash and restart.
What I did was I set the desired RPM then while monitoring manifold pressure (kpa) I increased and decreased idle timing and set it for the number that provided the smoothest idle and the lowest kpa.
What I did was I set the desired RPM then while monitoring manifold pressure (kpa) I increased and decreased idle timing and set it for the number that provided the smoothest idle and the lowest kpa.
12-13-2012, 02:32 PM
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Using efi live here. I was able to dial in my VE and Maf pretty nicely with help from blk02ws6. Haven't messed with the idle/off idle due to the heads being of it at the moment
