Blew stock pistons twice on twin turbo LS2 with low boost-- Please look at my tune!
12-28-2012, 07:30 PM
#42
FormerVendor
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Dyno Tuning in KY
Posts: 390
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It would have blown up with forged internals and that tune as well... I've pushed stock pistons very hard and that wouldn't have been the week link in the setup... Rods go before the pistons do with the propper tune and from sheer overpowering parts.
And like Martin said I also make customers sign a waiver before I touch the car. From my shops standpoint we cannot rebuild a complete car over a $3-400 tune. I do realize if the tune was at fault there would be reimbursement, however this is part of the risk you take with your tuner. Because of situations like this it makes it harder on legit tuners to gain trust from potential customers. Reputation and track record goes a long way to do that though!
Just sucks you found out the hard way that the tuner didn't know what he was doing. I hope he can at least reimburse the tune fee because its terrible someone could sleep at night having charged any amount of money for that tune.
And like Martin said I also make customers sign a waiver before I touch the car. From my shops standpoint we cannot rebuild a complete car over a $3-400 tune. I do realize if the tune was at fault there would be reimbursement, however this is part of the risk you take with your tuner. Because of situations like this it makes it harder on legit tuners to gain trust from potential customers. Reputation and track record goes a long way to do that though!
Just sucks you found out the hard way that the tuner didn't know what he was doing. I hope he can at least reimburse the tune fee because its terrible someone could sleep at night having charged any amount of money for that tune.
Last edited by James@ShorTuning; 12-28-2012 at 07:37 PM.
12-28-2012, 07:47 PM
#43
When your tuner told you to not use meth that should have been your sign to run and if he knew how to use the scanner he would have been able to see whether the pcm commanded the shift or if the trans couldn't make the shift. Good luck getting any money without going to court.......
12-28-2012, 08:55 PM
#44
On The Tree
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Southern MD
Posts: 180
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It would have blown up with forged internals and that tune as well... I've pushed stock pistons very hard and that wouldn't have been the week link in the setup... Rods go before the pistons do with the propper tune and from sheer overpowering parts.
And like Martin said I also make customers sign a waiver before I touch the car. From my shops standpoint we cannot rebuild a complete car over a $3-400 tune. I do realize if the tune was at fault there would be reimbursement, however this is part of the risk you take with your tuner. Because of situations like this it makes it harder on legit tuners to gain trust from potential customers. Reputation and track record goes a long way to do that though!
Just sucks you found out the hard way that the tuner didn't know what he was doing. I hope he can at least reimburse the tune fee because its terrible someone could sleep at night having charged any amount of money for that tune.
And like Martin said I also make customers sign a waiver before I touch the car. From my shops standpoint we cannot rebuild a complete car over a $3-400 tune. I do realize if the tune was at fault there would be reimbursement, however this is part of the risk you take with your tuner. Because of situations like this it makes it harder on legit tuners to gain trust from potential customers. Reputation and track record goes a long way to do that though!
Just sucks you found out the hard way that the tuner didn't know what he was doing. I hope he can at least reimburse the tune fee because its terrible someone could sleep at night having charged any amount of money for that tune.
I believe I spent somewhere around $850 on this tune, and feel even more ripped off based on how much I paid just to have this guy set parameters in my PCM to simply blow my engine. For the 8 PSI that we tuned it for, my car had everything it needed to handle that power with a good tune. If it were that I didn't have enough fuel flow due to not having proper equipment, was running too much boost, or something else that was my responsibility then there would be no need for this thread. But when I drove away from the tuner with a transmission that wouldn't even upshift at WOT and it blew up days later, and then blew up again days after I put the engine back together and had someone else fix the transmission parameters, I feel the tuner should take responsibility in his poor work. Especially when multiple people can look at the tune and realize that it has way too much timing and know that would cause the problem I've had. Ugh. Well I'm going to try to call him in the next few days and I'll keep everyone updated. Thanks again for your guys' help!
Last edited by MEAN GTO; 12-29-2012 at 07:47 AM.
12-28-2012, 08:59 PM
#45
On The Tree
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Southern MD
Posts: 180
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When your tuner told you to not use meth that should have been your sign to run and if he knew how to use the scanner he would have been able to see whether the pcm commanded the shift or if the trans couldn't make the shift. Good luck getting any money without going to court.......
So with EFI Live could he gave determined that the PCM was commanding the shift or not? With the RPM limit and upshift RPM set at the same RPM (6,500) I guess it wouldn't show as if the PCM commanded the shift, huh? Thanks for your info!
12-31-2012, 09:11 AM
#48
9 Second Club
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: on the dyno tuning in MD
Posts: 2,583
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
You won't be able to do a thing to a tuner in court - how can you prove that he is the one who put that tune in the car - anyone could have done it... And, in most states, tuning a car constitutes an illegal action (for a car registered to drive on the street) - tampering with an emissions device - the court will not award you anything for damages resulting from an illegal action...
This is why it is so very important to do your homework and research tuners before letting anyone touch your PCM...
This is why it is so very important to do your homework and research tuners before letting anyone touch your PCM...
01-01-2013, 03:55 PM
#51
On The Tree
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Southern MD
Posts: 180
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You won't be able to do a thing to a tuner in court - how can you prove that he is the one who put that tune in the car - anyone could have done it... And, in most states, tuning a car constitutes an illegal action (for a car registered to drive on the street) - tampering with an emissions device - the court will not award you anything for damages resulting from an illegal action...
This is why it is so very important to do your homework and research tuners before letting anyone touch your PCM...
This is why it is so very important to do your homework and research tuners before letting anyone touch your PCM...
I don't see how I can't prove that he did the tune with the receipt for payment I made on the tune, the dyno sheet, and a copy of the tune file he wrote (last modified the date of dyno pulls), and even some e-mails we exchanged regarding the tune and dyno results.
I suppose Johnny Law can argue that this car may have been tuned for street racing, but I have absolutely no record of street racing history, and have PLENTY of records of legal drag racing activity. I don't really see where it can be argued that the tune could have been used for illegal activities. I was an avid, amateur drag racer, racing only at legal drag strips. The car has made over 70 passes, easily, before the twin turbo setup. I can prove that, but who knows what might be argued about that.
But trust me, I did plenty of homework before I allowed this tuner to touch my car. I me him in person, took a tour of his shop, listened to his insights and methods, and then heard about his reputation from customers (over the Internet). I then brought my car to him to do a full dyno tune on it with a bigger blower pulley, after Jeremy Formato did a dyno tune on it months prior. The car seemed to perform great after the tune (though I didn't notice anything wrong with Jeremy's previous tune), but who knows what that tune even looked like. All I knew was the car made more horsepower with the bigger pulley and new tune. After I had the twin turbo setup finished I brought the car back to him due to everything mentioned in this same paragraph. It was simply some random tuner that I just heard of, and took it to him since he wasn't horribly far away from me. Guess it could have happened to anyone.... just not sure what he was thinking when he decided to put so much timing into the tune....
01-02-2013, 09:42 AM
#53
Thanks James, I hope so too.
Yeah, next time around, whenever that may be. Gotta take things a step at a time I guess.
I don't see how I can't prove that he did the tune with the receipt for payment I made on the tune, the dyno sheet, and a copy of the tune file he wrote (last modified the date of dyno pulls), and even some e-mails we exchanged regarding the tune and dyno results.
Yeah, next time around, whenever that may be. Gotta take things a step at a time I guess.
I don't see how I can't prove that he did the tune with the receipt for payment I made on the tune, the dyno sheet, and a copy of the tune file he wrote (last modified the date of dyno pulls), and even some e-mails we exchanged regarding the tune and dyno results.
You downloaded tune and altered it.
Running turbo setup on pump gas with no meth
You raced the car numerous times
Running boost on parts not designed for boost
You have no way to prove it wasnt from bad gas, parts failure, or drivers error. How would you prove it was the tune, people on ls1tech said it was? When I used to own a ls performance shop my lawyer's told me the waiver I used to have people sign for tuning or dyno was about 99.99% worthless. I dont remember all the exact words they used but there was also something about implied liability with tuning and dyno use.
Im not trying to knock you in anyway but I didnt want to you to get to caught up in thinking there was a way to get some money back. The tune you posted was garbage and is what I think caused all your carnage.
01-02-2013, 08:12 PM
#56
On The Tree
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Southern MD
Posts: 180
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree 100%. Its also very hard to prove the tune was the actual cause of the problem.
I fell for you and am on your side but there is almost no way you can prove in court that the tune was the cause of your problems. A few things that arent in your favor:
You downloaded tune and altered it.
Running turbo setup on pump gas with no meth
You raced the car numerous times
Running boost on parts not designed for boost
You have no way to prove it wasnt from bad gas, parts failure, or drivers error. How would you prove it was the tune, people on ls1tech said it was? When I used to own a ls performance shop my lawyer's told me the waiver I used to have people sign for tuning or dyno was about 99.99% worthless. I dont remember all the exact words they used but there was also something about implied liability with tuning and dyno use.
Im not trying to knock you in anyway but I didnt want to you to get to caught up in thinking there was a way to get some money back. The tune you posted was garbage and is what I think caused all your carnage.
I fell for you and am on your side but there is almost no way you can prove in court that the tune was the cause of your problems. A few things that arent in your favor:
You downloaded tune and altered it.
Running turbo setup on pump gas with no meth
You raced the car numerous times
Running boost on parts not designed for boost
You have no way to prove it wasnt from bad gas, parts failure, or drivers error. How would you prove it was the tune, people on ls1tech said it was? When I used to own a ls performance shop my lawyer's told me the waiver I used to have people sign for tuning or dyno was about 99.99% worthless. I dont remember all the exact words they used but there was also something about implied liability with tuning and dyno use.
Im not trying to knock you in anyway but I didnt want to you to get to caught up in thinking there was a way to get some money back. The tune you posted was garbage and is what I think caused all your carnage.
I suppose all I can rely on is that the tuner realizes the issues with the tune and agrees to give me some sort of refund for the sake of the problems this tune has put me through.
01-02-2013, 08:42 PM
#57
On The Tree
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Southern MD
Posts: 180
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I won't mention the tuner at this time, as I want to give him the opportunity to see what he is willing to do to correct the situation. If he refuses to attempt to correct the situation somehow then I will provide that information.
01-03-2013, 06:44 PM
#58
I feel your pain. I had two tuners here in Michigan put a so called tune on my car. Well, $1400 later the car ran worse than it did with a mail order tune. Fortunately I did not blow anything. After talking to Frost, then sending my PCM back to him, I will be getting the HPtuners software and going at it one step at a time. S$@T, I'll rather blow my own motor than spend this kind of money on a tune again and have them blow it.
01-03-2013, 07:06 PM
#59
On The Tree
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Southern MD
Posts: 180
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I feel your pain. I had two tuners here in Michigan put a so called tune on my car. Well, $1400 later the car ran worse than it did with a mail order tune. Fortunately I did not blow anything. After talking to Frost, then sending my PCM back to him, I will be getting the HPtuners software and going at it one step at a time. S$@T, I'll rather blow my own motor than spend this kind of money on a tune again and have them blow it.
