58x crank and ECU Questions
04-21-2013, 02:57 PM
#1
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58x crank and ECU Questions I posted this in Gen IV but maybe I will get more help here: I'm swapping a built LS2 402 stroker (with 58x reluctor) into my 01 Fbody (with 24x) and trying to figure out whether I should get the Lingenfelter conversion box, or swap out the reluctor, or get a new 58x ECM, and also if its easier to get a new wiring harness.
If I get a new ECM to work with the 58x what vehicle(s) should it come out of?
If I get a new 58x harness that has the knock sensor connections for the location on the side of the block, what vehicle(s) could that come out of?
I want to keep my cable driven throttle body on my FAST 90/90. Will an ECM made for drive by wire work with a cable TB? What would I need to change in the tune to switch to cable driven TB?
If I get a new ECM to work with the 58x what vehicle(s) should it come out of?
If I get a new 58x harness that has the knock sensor connections for the location on the side of the block, what vehicle(s) could that come out of?
I want to keep my cable driven throttle body on my FAST 90/90. Will an ECM made for drive by wire work with a cable TB? What would I need to change in the tune to switch to cable driven TB?
04-22-2013, 05:27 PM
#2
LS1Tech Sponsor
58x and mechanical throttle None of the 58x GM automotive ECM's support mechanical throttle. Converting to electronic throttle might not be that complicated, especially with the E38 or E67 ECM that don't require a separate throttle controller. If you have an automatic you would need an ECM and a TCM though.
If the engine isn't built yet or isn't installed yet, swapping the crank and camshaft reluctor wheels are probably the cleaniest way to do it. You will need the 1x front cam gear and then an extension harness for the camshaft sensor and for the knock sensors to relocate them to the sides of the block.
The other option would be to run our conversion module. You will then need an adapter harness for the knock sensors but you will not need one for the camshaft sensor since that is built into our module.
A 3rd option would be to go to an aftermarket engine management that supports 58x and also supports mechanical throttle but that is probably the most expensive solution in terms of hardware and also in terms of calibration time.
Hope this helps.
If the engine isn't built yet or isn't installed yet, swapping the crank and camshaft reluctor wheels are probably the cleaniest way to do it. You will need the 1x front cam gear and then an extension harness for the camshaft sensor and for the knock sensors to relocate them to the sides of the block.
The other option would be to run our conversion module. You will then need an adapter harness for the knock sensors but you will not need one for the camshaft sensor since that is built into our module.
A 3rd option would be to go to an aftermarket engine management that supports 58x and also supports mechanical throttle but that is probably the most expensive solution in terms of hardware and also in terms of calibration time.
Hope this helps.
I posted this in Gen IV but maybe I will get more help here: I'm swapping a built LS2 402 stroker (with 58x reluctor) into my 01 Fbody (with 24x) and trying to figure out whether I should get the Lingenfelter conversion box, or swap out the reluctor, or get a new 58x ECM, and also if its easier to get a new wiring harness.
If I get a new ECM to work with the 58x what vehicle(s) should it come out of?
If I get a new 58x harness that has the knock sensor connections for the location on the side of the block, what vehicle(s) could that come out of?
I want to keep my cable driven throttle body on my FAST 90/90. Will an ECM made for drive by wire work with a cable TB? What would I need to change in the tune to switch to cable driven TB?
If I get a new ECM to work with the 58x what vehicle(s) should it come out of?
If I get a new 58x harness that has the knock sensor connections for the location on the side of the block, what vehicle(s) could that come out of?
I want to keep my cable driven throttle body on my FAST 90/90. Will an ECM made for drive by wire work with a cable TB? What would I need to change in the tune to switch to cable driven TB?
05-23-2014, 11:42 PM
#4
drill the block install the LS1 knock sensors. The new style sensors will not EVER work correctly I went round and round with this on my car and gave up drilled it put the LS1 sensors on the block and it worked as perfectly as it had since the car had paper plates on it.
05-27-2014, 07:25 AM
#5
It's not all that confusing. ALL 58x motors are drive by wire. If you want cable throttle you need an LS1 PCM or aftermarket.
LS1 crank has 24x teeth and 1x cam angle located on the back end of the cam itself
LS2 crank has 24x teeth and 1x cam andle located on the timing chain gear
LS3 crank has 58x teeth and 4x cam angle located on the timing chain gear
LS1/2 PCM's can only work with 24x/1x motors. LS3 PCM's can only work with 58x/4x motors. The LPE box is the only way to use LS1/2 on LS3 and vise versa. Last option is to swap the reluctor and cam timing to what the PCM uses.
Most aftermartket ECU's will work with either triggering setup.
Knock sensors:
LS1 sensors are located under the valley cover.
LS2/3 sensors are located on the side of the block.
Some have seen more noise from the LS2/3 knock setup.
LS1 crank has 24x teeth and 1x cam angle located on the back end of the cam itself
LS2 crank has 24x teeth and 1x cam andle located on the timing chain gear
LS3 crank has 58x teeth and 4x cam angle located on the timing chain gear
LS1/2 PCM's can only work with 24x/1x motors. LS3 PCM's can only work with 58x/4x motors. The LPE box is the only way to use LS1/2 on LS3 and vise versa. Last option is to swap the reluctor and cam timing to what the PCM uses.
Most aftermartket ECU's will work with either triggering setup.
Knock sensors:
LS1 sensors are located under the valley cover.
LS2/3 sensors are located on the side of the block.
Some have seen more noise from the LS2/3 knock setup.
05-27-2014, 11:52 AM
#6
LS1Tech Sponsor
24x vs 58x confusion (especially for LS2) Just to clarify, it is actually more complicated than what you indicated because while all then III V8 engines are 24x (LS1, LS6, LQ4, LQ9 etc) not all Gen IV engines are 58x. Early Gen IV engines were 24x (primarily E40 ECM vehicles).
For example, in the list below the LS2 is shown as 24x but that is not always the case. In a 2005 Corvette it is 24x but in a 2006 or 2007 Corvette it is 58x. In a 2005-2006 SSR is is 24x and in a 2005-2006 Trailblazer it is 24x but in a 2007 Trailblazer it is 58x. In a 2005-2006 GTO it is 24x but in a 2006-2007 CTS-V it is 58x.
In our TRG instructions we have a more detailed table by make/model/year.
I attached the pages as JPG images but not sure how well that will work.
You can also go to the PDF document directly here:
http://www.lingenfelter.com/sites/lp....6%20small.pdf
The 2005-2007 model year vehicles, especially the LS2, probably cause the most confusion and the most cases of the incorrect engine being installed in a vehicle.
For example, in the list below the LS2 is shown as 24x but that is not always the case. In a 2005 Corvette it is 24x but in a 2006 or 2007 Corvette it is 58x. In a 2005-2006 SSR is is 24x and in a 2005-2006 Trailblazer it is 24x but in a 2007 Trailblazer it is 58x. In a 2005-2006 GTO it is 24x but in a 2006-2007 CTS-V it is 58x.
In our TRG instructions we have a more detailed table by make/model/year.
I attached the pages as JPG images but not sure how well that will work.
You can also go to the PDF document directly here:
http://www.lingenfelter.com/sites/lp....6%20small.pdf
The 2005-2007 model year vehicles, especially the LS2, probably cause the most confusion and the most cases of the incorrect engine being installed in a vehicle.
It's not all that confusing. ALL 58x motors are drive by wire. If you want cable throttle you need an LS1 PCM or aftermarket.
LS1 crank has 24x teeth and 1x cam angle located on the back end of the cam itself
LS2 crank has 24x teeth and 1x cam andle located on the timing chain gear
LS3 crank has 58x teeth and 4x cam angle located on the timing chain gear
LS1/2 PCM's can only work with 24x/1x motors. LS3 PCM's can only work with 58x/4x motors. The LPE box is the only way to use LS1/2 on LS3 and vise versa. Last option is to swap the reluctor and cam timing to what the PCM uses.
Most aftermartket ECU's will work with either triggering setup.
Knock sensors:
LS1 sensors are located under the valley cover.
LS2/3 sensors are located on the side of the block.
Some have seen more noise from the LS2/3 knock setup.
LS1 crank has 24x teeth and 1x cam angle located on the back end of the cam itself
LS2 crank has 24x teeth and 1x cam andle located on the timing chain gear
LS3 crank has 58x teeth and 4x cam angle located on the timing chain gear
LS1/2 PCM's can only work with 24x/1x motors. LS3 PCM's can only work with 58x/4x motors. The LPE box is the only way to use LS1/2 on LS3 and vise versa. Last option is to swap the reluctor and cam timing to what the PCM uses.
Most aftermartket ECU's will work with either triggering setup.
Knock sensors:
LS1 sensors are located under the valley cover.
LS2/3 sensors are located on the side of the block.
Some have seen more noise from the LS2/3 knock setup.
