Getting KR and slow times
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 171
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From: SE Oklahoma
Getting KR and slow times Ive got a LQ9 in a Chevelle and I finally got to take it to the track today for the 1st time. Its got a small cam (224 & .565 112) ,headers and stall. I ran a best of 8.53 and a worst of 9.12. The car was inconsistent and should have been in the 7's in my opinion. I did spin a little a couple times but not enough mess my times up that much plus MPH was a best of 78 and low of 74. My buddies bone stock ls1 Camaro ran 8.3's @ 84. I have HP Tunners and logged each run. I added a little fuel thinking it would help but if anything made it worse. Best time was the 1st run. My wide band was indicating AFR's in the low 12's and timing would be low teens. My timing map is pretty much stock and what I have changed is super low compared to what I have seen others run. I am wondering if the knock is really there or could it be that timing is too low. I only run 91 octane ethanol free gas in this car. Thanks in advance
Your timing is way low I would start with timing tables from an 01 z06. Lots of knock i would think from running lean. Are you sure your wideband is setup correctly. You need to find the source of the knock. Your shift points are low also I would think you would want to at least shift at 6100 rpm for that cam.
Last edited by Pharcyde50; Apr 13, 2014 at 11:13 AM.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 171
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From: SE Oklahoma
I am not positive that it is correct, but the narrow bands are staying pegged high when the AFR is being commanded lower than lamba and the wide band and narrow bands agree at lamaba. Also I added fuel 2 times and saw it in the log. Im just wondering if I need to make any changes to knock settings. I agree about my shift points. This was the 1st time at the track and Im just being conservative.
Why did you increase the knock sensor sensitivity over stock? Return all the knock sensor tables to stock. And zero the burst knock vs rpm table. Then I would start at 22* wot, then check the 1/8 mile MPH. Then add 1* timing at a time to see if the mph increases. My experience with the LS motors, is that no more than 24* timing is needed.
Russ Kemp
Russ Kemp
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 171
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From: SE Oklahoma
Your timing is way low I would start with timing tables from an 01 z06. Lots of knock i would think from running lean. Are you sure your wideband is setup correctly. You need to find the source of the knock. Your shift points are low also I would think you would want to at least shift at 6100 rpm for that cam.
I run all the knock settings from the Z06 tune also they are a little less sensitive than an ls1 tune. All the truck tunes have way lower timing to prevent knock while towing. Good luck!
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 171
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From: SE Oklahoma
Why did you increase the knock sensor sensitivity over stock? Return all the knock sensor tables to stock. And zero the burst knock vs rpm table. Then I would start at 22* wot, then check the 1/8 mile MPH. Then add 1* timing at a time to see if the mph increases. My experience with the LS motors, is that no more than 24* timing is needed.
Russ Kemp
Russ Kemp
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Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: May 2012
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From: SE Oklahoma
I loaded up the ls6 knock sensor settings and made a couple full throttle hit and it didnt pick up any knock. The temp is lower though and it caused it to use a different part of the map though which has less timing. I will have off on Friday so I will probably get some logging time then.
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On The Tree
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 171
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From: SE Oklahoma
Thanks..Its a little scary to see KR. I once had an SBC with a timing mark that was way off which of course I didnt know. I set the timing and after a couple laps on a dirt track it started missing. I pulled the plugs and a couple of them looked like I beat the hell out of them with a hammer. I assumed it dropped a valve when I saw the 1st one.
I agree with Russ about checking the burst knock tables. The truck tunes I've seen all seem to be heavy on those. Removing them from my 5.3 truck alone made it feel a lot stronger.
My car kept getting faster adding timing until I got to 27.5* and ~12.6 air fuel with ethanol, ~12.8 with no ethanol. I set my air fuel in 3rd gear, if I set it in 1st or 2nd the car is rich ( low 12s afrs in 3rd gear). Tuning for afr in 3rd makes the wideband read in the low 13s in lower gears but the car picked up .15 and 1.5 mph in the 1/4 just from that.
Command shift RPM and MPH at whatever you need to get an actual logged shift of around 6000rpm then keep bumping it until the car doesn't get faster or you stop feeling comfortable. Likely to end up around 6300-6400rpm shifts.
My car kept getting faster adding timing until I got to 27.5* and ~12.6 air fuel with ethanol, ~12.8 with no ethanol. I set my air fuel in 3rd gear, if I set it in 1st or 2nd the car is rich ( low 12s afrs in 3rd gear). Tuning for afr in 3rd makes the wideband read in the low 13s in lower gears but the car picked up .15 and 1.5 mph in the 1/4 just from that.
Command shift RPM and MPH at whatever you need to get an actual logged shift of around 6000rpm then keep bumping it until the car doesn't get faster or you stop feeling comfortable. Likely to end up around 6300-6400rpm shifts.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: May 2012
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From: SE Oklahoma
Im cant wait to get it back to the track and see what it will do. Im going to have to get a line lock so that I can get a good burnout done. With the crappy brakes it seems much more difficult to do a good burn out as compared to the Camaro.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: May 2012
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From: SE Oklahoma
I am off work today and just a couple miles from here is a stretch of highway that has a closed bridge. The only reason for anybody to be there is to check on cattle I will have it to myself. I am wondering if I can log runs and measure performance by the amount of time it takes to climb from say 4k to 6k rpms.
Teching In
Joined: Sep 2013
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From: Straya
http://www.virtualdyno.net/
Use this, it's free and very accurate if you input accurate weights, tire size, and gear ratios.
Use this, it's free and very accurate if you input accurate weights, tire size, and gear ratios.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 171
Likes: 0
From: SE Oklahoma
http://www.virtualdyno.net/
Use this, it's free and very accurate if you input accurate weights, tire size, and gear ratios.
Use this, it's free and very accurate if you input accurate weights, tire size, and gear ratios.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 171
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From: SE Oklahoma
Just went and did a 3 full throttle runs in 2nd. 2 times with out KR and one time with. Timing is only at 11 Deg but I am getting a knock sensor code P0332. I hadnt checked for codes and do not have a CEL yet. Bout to dig into that and see if I find a problem. Ive got another set so may just change them.
On The Tree
Joined: Aug 2011
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From: Indiana
I use the HPTuners Scanner software to log 60-100 mph times in 3rd for comparison on my beast. Start at 55 & floor it so that the throttle plate is open crossing 60 mph. If you use the same stretch of road it is a fair comparison for performance. 3.67 sec 60-100 mph here. You can use 2nd if you wish, just be consistent on how you do it.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: May 2012
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From: SE Oklahoma
Replace the knock sensors and pigtail with ones from another motor that I have in the shop. Mad 2 test runs and no knock at all. I just went ahead and copied all of the LS6 timing related tables except the high octane table. I used the low octane table in both tables. The car seems significantly quicker now. I measured 50-70 in 2nd at less than 2 seconds and it was a little over 3 seconds at the drag strip. Weather conditions are a little better now and both were on flat ground. I think I am making headway.
If you can find the stock timing table for a 98 LS1 it might be a good start to your high octane table. It's one of the more aggressive stock timing tables I remember looking at.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 171
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From: SE Oklahoma
Ive done a little more driving and it seems to be doing fine. I am going to go ahead and load up the LS6 high octane tables into my high table. I will check out the 98 LS1 if I can get my hands on one. Should you make the high and low tables match with something conservative when you are bracket racing? Im also curious as to how much hp you pick up in a truck by simply using an ls1 or ls6 timing map. I am really enjoying HP Tuners. It is so cool to be able to change fuel and timing without having to break out tools.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 171
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From: SE Oklahoma
You were correct on the timing. The 98 LS1 timing is much more aggressive. I went ahead and just used the LS6 high table and now all of my timing tables are exactly the same as LS6. I gotta work for the next 3 weekends so it will be a while before I get a new time slip.