Idle surge (mostly in Park/Neutral)
12-12-2015, 11:43 AM
#21
Got it put in open loop at idle. Best thing I've ever done....idles perfect without flaring or surging when putting in gear or back to park, rpms come down to normal faster after stabbing throttle, and the car drives perfect.
Another one off the list.
Only 1 "problem" left. It won't start dead cold without throttle input. It will fire right back up if I turn it off and then restart once it's warm.
It also won't start if it's been running and I let it sit for a little while. It will crank and crank and crank usually until I give it throttle. Not sure it this is tune related or cam sensor related since it was doing it before the cam swap too.
From there it's just time to fine tune VE and I might play with WOT timing some.
Thanks for all the help so far, any ideas on these last items?
Another one off the list.
Only 1 "problem" left. It won't start dead cold without throttle input. It will fire right back up if I turn it off and then restart once it's warm.
It also won't start if it's been running and I let it sit for a little while. It will crank and crank and crank usually until I give it throttle. Not sure it this is tune related or cam sensor related since it was doing it before the cam swap too.
From there it's just time to fine tune VE and I might play with WOT timing some.
Thanks for all the help so far, any ideas on these last items?
Last edited by thunderstruck507; 12-12-2015 at 11:58 AM.
12-12-2015, 01:41 PM
#22
Moderator
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: My own internal universe
Posts: 10,446
Received 1,838 Likes
on
1,146 Posts
Ok. In HPT, it would be under engine>idle>airflow
Idle start up airflow initial vs ECT. Add air where you want it hot or cold. Start adding say 4 g/sec You can cut back after you know it works.
Under engine>spark>advance:
Cranking / start spark table. Add timing. Mine was all negative when I first found this. I'm at 14 at 14 and 8 at 176. Interpolate.
Startup flare control table. Spark retard vs RPM error. These numbers are probably as high as -25. Cut them in half. If it flares too bad you can always go in later and add more retard. Main thing is get it to start.
Those combined might start and rev on you but then once you overshoot you can cut back.
Idle start up airflow initial vs ECT. Add air where you want it hot or cold. Start adding say 4 g/sec You can cut back after you know it works.
Under engine>spark>advance:
Cranking / start spark table. Add timing. Mine was all negative when I first found this. I'm at 14 at 14 and 8 at 176. Interpolate.
Startup flare control table. Spark retard vs RPM error. These numbers are probably as high as -25. Cut them in half. If it flares too bad you can always go in later and add more retard. Main thing is get it to start.
Those combined might start and rev on you but then once you overshoot you can cut back.
12-12-2015, 08:07 PM
#24
TECH Senior Member
Tables translated to EFILive table id's...
Under engine>spark>advance:
Cranking / start spark table. Add timing. Mine was all negative when I first found this. I'm at 14 at 14 and 8 at 176. Interpolate.
Cranking / start spark table. Add timing. Mine was all negative when I first found this. I'm at 14 at 14 and 8 at 176. Interpolate.
Startup flare control table. Spark retard vs RPM error. These numbers are probably as high as -25. Cut them in half. If it flares too bad you can always go in later and add more retard. Main thing is get it to start.
12-13-2015, 09:11 AM
#26
Moderator
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: My own internal universe
Posts: 10,446
Received 1,838 Likes
on
1,146 Posts
But if you open the throttle body, your IAC counts go down when you're warm
12-13-2015, 01:55 PM
#28
TECH Senior Member
Thunderstuck, ah, ok, I see it:
...
1. Go to fuel>Power Enrich. Set the hot and cold PE throttle to zero from 0-1200. This will put you in open loop all the time in that RPM range. Set your PE ratio from 0-1200 at 1.00 to prevent overfueling.
2. Go to fuel>Open&Closed Loop. Open the EQ ratio table, and set everything to 1.00 from 140-230 degrees up to about 75 kpa - something safely higher than your idle. kpa. Above that, set to whatever PE number you want to use. I use 1.15 from 80 to 105 kpa.
3. Still in fuel>O&C Loop. Set STFT Openloop to disabled. I'm also assuming your LTFT are disabled as well. shouldn't make a difference, but the LTFT will add to the fueling.
...
Flash it, and you should be in open loop at idle
1. Go to fuel>Power Enrich. Set the hot and cold PE throttle to zero from 0-1200. This will put you in open loop all the time in that RPM range. Set your PE ratio from 0-1200 at 1.00 to prevent overfueling.
2. Go to fuel>Open&Closed Loop. Open the EQ ratio table, and set everything to 1.00 from 140-230 degrees up to about 75 kpa - something safely higher than your idle. kpa. Above that, set to whatever PE number you want to use. I use 1.15 from 80 to 105 kpa.
3. Still in fuel>O&C Loop. Set STFT Openloop to disabled. I'm also assuming your LTFT are disabled as well. shouldn't make a difference, but the LTFT will add to the fueling.
...
Flash it, and you should be in open loop at idle
12-14-2015, 08:21 AM
#29
Well unfortunately my tuning is on hold, the laptop died last night. HP that's a couple years old just has a black screen on startup, never boots, and the caps lock light blinks. From what I gather on a Google search this means a motherboard or CPU failure.
really hoping I can pull the hard drive and put it in a USB case, but first I have to find a replacement to buy that won't break the bank
really hoping I can pull the hard drive and put it in a USB case, but first I have to find a replacement to buy that won't break the bank
12-18-2015, 08:30 AM
#36
If anyone happens to have the IFR table for the Bosch injectors I could change that and then touch up my VE and MAF to more accurate values while I'm still tweaking on it. I'm hoping to get my laptop situation figured out today since it's payday.
12-28-2015, 06:24 AM
#38
On The Tree
I have the exact same issue on my sons car, 2 tuners have not been able to get the car not to surge badly @ idle in park, better in gear but there at times, does it after warm and sounds like a blown alcohol car
12-28-2015, 08:37 AM
#39
Putting mine in Open Loop fixed it. Now I just need to tweak some things and maybe the throttle follower as the RPMs drop a little too quick coming off throttle at a low roll now and it wants to drop too low.
I just got a new laptop then got busy with holidays and now flooding rain...
I just got a new laptop then got busy with holidays and now flooding rain...
01-11-2016, 08:19 AM
#40
Well it was fine and after fixing a small vacuum leak, inputing some minor changes to the IFR table, and a subsequent touch up the the VE and MAF it's surging again.
Using the controls in EFI Live locking timing, target AFR, and IAC steps I can't even get it to stop easily like before.
It seems no matter what I do the IAC counts want to swing low down into the 20s but locking them at 50-60 steps still doesn't eliminate the surge either.
Kinda perplexed here unless there is a mechanical or electrical issue at play. Going to start there I suppose since tune changes don't seem to be getting me anyway.
The car runs excellent otherwise. Just after it comes down to idle for more than about 10 seconds it starts surging.
Using the controls in EFI Live locking timing, target AFR, and IAC steps I can't even get it to stop easily like before.
It seems no matter what I do the IAC counts want to swing low down into the 20s but locking them at 50-60 steps still doesn't eliminate the surge either.
Kinda perplexed here unless there is a mechanical or electrical issue at play. Going to start there I suppose since tune changes don't seem to be getting me anyway.
The car runs excellent otherwise. Just after it comes down to idle for more than about 10 seconds it starts surging.