My review of my TERRIBLE experience with Livernois Motorsports
07-16-2017, 06:33 PM
#61
TECH Senior Member
07-17-2017, 10:31 AM
#63
I'm not defending Livernois Motorsports. But on a manual trans 5th gen Camaro, there is no torque management when you turn off the traction control & stability control. The Maximum Torque Rpm vs Gear is at 6042 ft lbs stock, and the Torque Limit vs RPM > Max Torque for 1st through 6th has no effect.
That being said, I had to retune a customer's Livernois Motorsport H/C package on a 2006 GTO. It had a P0106 map code that they said was not tune related and very poor drive ability. The customer tried new map sensors, checked for vacuum leaks etc.
The cause of the P0106 was because of the lower vacuum from the cam, that they didn't disable the P0106 map test (very common when tuning for an aftermarket cam). The WOT AFR was as lean as 16.5! The spark tables, idle speed & High Maf table were all at stock values.
The only things that were changed was the skip shift was disabled, disabled cat tests, lowered the fan temp, and raised the speed limiter.
Russ Kemp
That being said, I had to retune a customer's Livernois Motorsport H/C package on a 2006 GTO. It had a P0106 map code that they said was not tune related and very poor drive ability. The customer tried new map sensors, checked for vacuum leaks etc.
The cause of the P0106 was because of the lower vacuum from the cam, that they didn't disable the P0106 map test (very common when tuning for an aftermarket cam). The WOT AFR was as lean as 16.5! The spark tables, idle speed & High Maf table were all at stock values.
The only things that were changed was the skip shift was disabled, disabled cat tests, lowered the fan temp, and raised the speed limiter.
Russ Kemp
07-17-2017, 10:39 AM
#64
Dude, I have no dog in this fight but Holy S. If they are so awful stop going to them. You're in a horrible position now, they hate and want you to go away. Get the fng hint. At this point it's hard for them or anyone else to think of you as anything but a whiny B. No offense.
I'd be a lot more concerned with the place that built my "forged" motor that was modified with an intake manifold and took a S. Where is your review of that place?
07-21-2017, 09:10 AM
#67
TECH Addict
Agreed anyone that locks tunes i would never go to. Plus if something happens to them or their business your stuck with a locked pcm. Frost who probably tunes more pcm's then anyone else doesn't lock his tunes.
07-21-2017, 09:25 AM
#68
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dude, I have no dog in this fight but Holy S. If they are so awful stop going to them. You're in a horrible position now, they hate and want you to go away. Get the fng hint. At this point it's hard for them or anyone else to think of you as anything but a whiny B. No offense.
I'd be a lot more concerned with the place that built my "forged" motor that was modified with an intake manifold and took a S. Where is your review of that place?
Last edited by BooneSS13; 07-21-2017 at 09:30 AM.
07-21-2017, 09:38 AM
#69
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Anytime I spend the money that I did I want that person/business to do what I paid for them to do. Figured it was worth a try before I spent another $500 just to have my car retuned. In the meantime I'll document the terrible customer service. The more people that know the better. I wish someone would've made a thread like this before I decided to do business with them. I know it's kinda repetitive which Is why I'm getting a new tuner next season. More than likely SpeedInc. I've heard good things about them so far
07-21-2017, 07:06 PM
#71
Would you want anyone to be able to copy your work/tune and go out and make money off the work and R&D you did?
Yes I can understand from a consumers point of view but you have to look at the other side too.
07-21-2017, 07:38 PM
#72
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Look at it from the tuners side. Let's say you are really good at tuning Fords and have figured **** out that no one else has and you make money off that.
Would you want anyone to be able to copy your work/tune and go out and make money off the work and R&D you did?
Yes I can understand from a consumers point of view but you have to look at the other side too.
Would you want anyone to be able to copy your work/tune and go out and make money off the work and R&D you did?
Yes I can understand from a consumers point of view but you have to look at the other side too.
And in Livernois Motorsports (and I'm sure a few others) case even when asked they give you a double speech answer (our software is so advanced etc.) which someone that's newer to this whole tuning thing wouldn't even understand.
07-21-2017, 07:44 PM
#73
TECH Senior Member
THAT I agree with! One should be advised beforehand if the tuner he employs will lock the tune, NOT after the fact. The tune might be proprietary, BUT it is put in SOMEONE ELSE'S property. I would say there are some legal snags involved with locking a tune on someone's computer.
07-21-2017, 08:20 PM
#75
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
07-21-2017, 08:22 PM
#76
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
THAT I agree with! One should be advised beforehand if the tuner he employs will lock the tune, NOT after the fact. The tune might be proprietary, BUT it is put in SOMEONE ELSE'S property. I would say there are some legal snags involved with locking a tune on someone's computer.
07-21-2017, 08:22 PM
#77
The first sentence states you don't want someone copying your work for profit.
The second has to do with the customer needing something changed. Maybe like a gear change?
You completely missed the whole freakin point.
Last edited by LilJayV10; 07-21-2017 at 08:27 PM.
07-21-2017, 08:29 PM
#78
You do realize that those two statements actually have nothing to do with each other right? And you trying to connect the dots between the two to is ridiculous.
The first sentence states you don't want copying your work for profit.
The second has to do with the customer needing something changed. Maybe like a gear change?
You completely missed the whole freakin point.
The first sentence states you don't want copying your work for profit.
The second has to do with the customer needing something changed. Maybe like a gear change?
You completely missed the whole freakin point.
07-21-2017, 08:39 PM
#79
Actually I'm not, and apparently other people understand the post. The point is if the tuner is so great that the customer has no need to go anywhere else... then theres no tune to be stole.....and if the tuner is so lousy that he has to go somewhere else to get the car right...then nobody wants his tune anyways. In either case locking the tune does exactly crap except hide a bad tune.
******* OTHER TUNERS STEAL YOUR TUNES AND USE THEM FOR PROFIT.
I mean how are you not seeing understanding this?
In one sentence you say if the tune is good he won't go somewhere else there is no tune to be stole.....yeah there is...the good ******* tune that's in the car.
Or do you think the only time people rip tunes from cars is when they take them somewhere else to be tuned?
Is your argument that if the tune is good, the person won't have a reason to go to another tuner and because of that, the tuner won't have the opportunity to copy the tune?
07-21-2017, 09:04 PM
#80
a 'tune' is often very personal. Useless to many. I would never lock one for a variety of reasons-
Keep in mind, a good 'tuner' is often a good programmer, computer tech, mechanic, etc... If the 'tuner' cannot answer questions about the engine/setup, such as oil quality and containment, fuel octane threshold, crank trigger, injector phase, this is main stream info all 'tuners' should know.
Second, lets say you get somebody like that, good with computers, programming, engines, etc... Then it would should also be easy for them to put numbers/config into a tune that looks 'incorrect' in order to hide the real data. For example we can re-scale the map sensor so 10psi is actually 5psi. So anyone looking at the tune would see 5psi worth of timing numbers in the 10psi region. If they copy it without understanding it... then it becomes their problem, shouldn't just copy info without knowing what it does or means. And if they understand it, it should become obvious that something is wrong, or scaled funny, etc... impossible to divulge without extensive analysis.
In other words, good tuners, good with engines/computers, with proprietary information often have ways to hide that info without locking the tune.
Keep in mind, a good 'tuner' is often a good programmer, computer tech, mechanic, etc... If the 'tuner' cannot answer questions about the engine/setup, such as oil quality and containment, fuel octane threshold, crank trigger, injector phase, this is main stream info all 'tuners' should know.
Second, lets say you get somebody like that, good with computers, programming, engines, etc... Then it would should also be easy for them to put numbers/config into a tune that looks 'incorrect' in order to hide the real data. For example we can re-scale the map sensor so 10psi is actually 5psi. So anyone looking at the tune would see 5psi worth of timing numbers in the 10psi region. If they copy it without understanding it... then it becomes their problem, shouldn't just copy info without knowing what it does or means. And if they understand it, it should become obvious that something is wrong, or scaled funny, etc... impossible to divulge without extensive analysis.
In other words, good tuners, good with engines/computers, with proprietary information often have ways to hide that info without locking the tune.