Just about given up on my 231/237
06-25-2004, 06:25 PM
#41
Yup, we got lots of good data. I'm not sure what is normal idle vacuum for that big-*** cam, so if any other users of the TSP 231/237 can step in with their vacuum data it'll help.
The dead pass side O2 sensor is probably burned wiring or disconnected, never seen an O2 sensor fail to just plain 443mV (PCM bias voltage) before.
And go ahead guys, tell him his injectors are too small...
The dead pass side O2 sensor is probably burned wiring or disconnected, never seen an O2 sensor fail to just plain 443mV (PCM bias voltage) before.
And go ahead guys, tell him his injectors are too small...
06-25-2004, 06:30 PM
#42
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Originally Posted by crainholio
Yup, we got lots of good data. I'm not sure what is normal idle vacuum for that big-*** cam, so if any other users of the TSP 231/237 can step in with their vacuum data it'll help.
The dead pass side O2 sensor is probably burned wiring or disconnected, never seen an O2 sensor fail to just plain 443mV (PCM bias voltage) before.
And go ahead guys, tell him his injectors are too small...
The dead pass side O2 sensor is probably burned wiring or disconnected, never seen an O2 sensor fail to just plain 443mV (PCM bias voltage) before.
And go ahead guys, tell him his injectors are too small...
I had my drivers side O2 sensor wire melt to the headers and pegged the O2 sensor voltage. It wouldn't even run at all when it went into closed loop. I doubt that the wires would be melted unless it melted a different combination than I did.
06-25-2004, 07:33 PM
#43
Originally Posted by foff667
ttt with this one with some new findings first off I'd like to say thanks to kevin(crainholio) for his time and help today. We used efi live and found some things maybe you guys can help me out with.
1. my car runs in open loop the whole time, never goes to closed loop
2. one of my 02's is dead...will get that fixed asap
3. very little vaccum at idle ...~71KPa anyone know how much they pull?
4. car runs way lean in the low RPM/KPa ranges, based on the one
O2 sensor that is working
5. my WOT fueling looks dead on perfect from the one working O2
sensor. Granted a narrow-band O2 sensor isn't as accurate as a wide-
band, but 890mV is generally the sweet spot and you're there.
6. my injectors are hitting 91% duty cycle at 6000rpm. Not a problem
now, but a longevity concern. Should i seriously look into larger injectors? Right now ive got stock 98 injectors...i think 28lb?
Any info, help, concerns or questions? Let me know Im all ears
1. my car runs in open loop the whole time, never goes to closed loop
2. one of my 02's is dead...will get that fixed asap
3. very little vaccum at idle ...~71KPa anyone know how much they pull?
4. car runs way lean in the low RPM/KPa ranges, based on the one
O2 sensor that is working
5. my WOT fueling looks dead on perfect from the one working O2
sensor. Granted a narrow-band O2 sensor isn't as accurate as a wide-
band, but 890mV is generally the sweet spot and you're there.
6. my injectors are hitting 91% duty cycle at 6000rpm. Not a problem
now, but a longevity concern. Should i seriously look into larger injectors? Right now ive got stock 98 injectors...i think 28lb?
Any info, help, concerns or questions? Let me know Im all ears
06-26-2004, 11:05 AM
#45
ok some more info to help this thing along...swaped out my pass. o2 sensor w/ new one...same exact readings 443-447mv the entire time on bank 2 sensor 1...i checked out the rear 2 o2's, which are obviously deleted, and they read 450 constant...whereas bank 1 sensor 1 reads accurately...btw ive still get the hesitation lol. Any more ideas? I think cartek uses my pass o2 for the w/b a/f meter is there anyway maybe they havent been reactivating the o2 or something? I have no clue what you can do with tech2 or edit so im just proding at the anwser now.
Thanks guys,
Bill
Thanks guys,
Bill
06-26-2004, 01:25 PM
#46
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Originally Posted by foff667
ok some more info to help this thing along...swaped out my pass. o2 sensor w/ new one...same exact readings 443-447mv the entire time on bank 2 sensor 1...i checked out the rear 2 o2's, which are obviously deleted, and they read 450 constant...whereas bank 1 sensor 1 reads accurately...btw ive still get the hesitation lol. Any more ideas? I think cartek uses my pass o2 for the w/b a/f meter is there anyway maybe they havent been reactivating the o2 or something? I have no clue what you can do with tech2 or edit so im just proding at the anwser now.
Thanks guys,
Bill
Thanks guys,
Bill
If it is not getting enough voltage or it is not powering the heater is is likely it will not show accurate readings. It very well could be since the PCM powers the O2 sensors when they deleted it, it stopped sending one of the signals to the O2 sensors for power or the heater circuit. Just measure the wires on your other O2 sensors in the exact pin locations and measure the non switching O2 sensors and let us know what they are reading.
Last edited by monodax; 06-26-2004 at 01:31 PM.
06-26-2004, 01:58 PM
#47
I had a similar problem with the O2's. My passenger side was just dead. I replaced the O2 and had the same problem. I then swapped the drivers side with the passenger side, and it started working. The O2 that I had replaced it with was no good. Might try that.
06-26-2004, 02:09 PM
#48
Originally Posted by itchygomey98
I had a similar problem with the O2's. My passenger side was just dead. I replaced the O2 and had the same problem. I then swapped the drivers side with the passenger side, and it started working. The O2 that I had replaced it with was no good. Might try that.
06-26-2004, 02:11 PM
#49
Originally Posted by monodax
What is weird is that the PCM just supplys a reference signal. I mean are you sure you are getting all the wires on the O2 sensor powered? It has to have 1 wire on the O2 sensor getting a reference signal and another the heater voltage to heat the sensor, the other is a signal going back to your pcm and the other is ground.
If it is not getting enough voltage or it is not powering the heater is is likely it will not show accurate readings. It very well could be since the PCM powers the O2 sensors when they deleted it, it stopped sending one of the signals to the O2 sensors for power or the heater circuit. Just measure the wires on your other O2 sensors in the exact pin locations and measure the non switching O2 sensors and let us know what they are reading.
If it is not getting enough voltage or it is not powering the heater is is likely it will not show accurate readings. It very well could be since the PCM powers the O2 sensors when they deleted it, it stopped sending one of the signals to the O2 sensors for power or the heater circuit. Just measure the wires on your other O2 sensors in the exact pin locations and measure the non switching O2 sensors and let us know what they are reading.
Thanks
Bill
06-26-2004, 04:39 PM
#50
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Originally Posted by foff667
would i have to messure the readings with the car running? and can you explain how to use a multi meter? the one i have the directions left alot to be desired and ive never had a need to use it before...just bought it so if i ever needed it(now) id at least have it handy.
Thanks
Bill
Thanks
Bill
You will need to probe the wires going to the O2 this can be done with a pick tool or make a small ***** in the insulation so you can see the copper wire to put your test leads to on each wire. Be sure to do this on the side that goes to the PCM, Not the harness that goes to the O2 Sensor. It is used for an Air reference signal and in my GM documentation say explicitly not to tap into the side towards the O2 Sensor from the connector.
You don't need to crank your car just turn the ignition all the way to the run where all your guages are illuminated. Make sure you turn the radio and A/C off so you won't have extra accessories pulling on the battery.
Put your ground lead (black) to the frame for now. Just ensure that it has very good contact with the metal.
Now with each wire probe the O2 wires that you spliced before and you should have 2 wires at first reading close to 5 volts DC and should be very stable. The other wire should be fluctuating slightly after a few minutes if the O2 sensor heater circuit is energized. So in all you should have three wires that have around 5 volts and one that is ground.
I will post back the wire colors if I can find them in a bit but this should get you started. This is so that you will know what is not getting energized if their is a problem.
Also when done, I would tape the wires individually very good so that no water can come into contact with where you pricked the insulation. Also I would then wrap tape around all 4 to keep them together.
Last edited by monodax; 06-26-2004 at 05:36 PM.
06-26-2004, 09:27 PM
#51
Originally Posted by monodax
Well it should be fairly easy to use. Just set the meter to DC Usually they have a setting of 20 Volts which is also has a Flat Line for DC instead of the Alternating (Wavy) line for AC. Once you have your meter setup test it on your battery to ensure that you have it set properly. It should read around 12-13 volts with the car off.
You will need to probe the wires going to the O2 this can be done with a pick tool or make a small ***** in the insulation so you can see the copper wire to put your test leads to on each wire. Be sure to do this on the side that goes to the PCM, Not the harness that goes to the O2 Sensor. It is used for an Air reference signal and in my GM documentation say explicitly not to tap into the side towards the O2 Sensor from the connector.
You don't need to crank your car just turn the ignition all the way to the run where all your guages are illuminated. Make sure you turn the radio and A/C off so you won't have extra accessories pulling on the battery.
Put your ground lead (black) to the frame for now. Just ensure that it has very good contact with the metal.
Now with each wire probe the O2 wires that you spliced before and you should have 2 wires at first reading close to 5 volts DC and should be very stable. The other wire should be fluctuating slightly after a few minutes if the O2 sensor heater circuit is energized. So in all you should have three wires that have around 5 volts and one that is ground.
I will post back the wire colors if I can find them in a bit but this should get you started. This is so that you will know what is not getting energized if their is a problem.
Also when done, I would tape the wires individually very good so that no water can come into contact with where you pricked the insulation. Also I would then wrap tape around all 4 to keep them together.
You will need to probe the wires going to the O2 this can be done with a pick tool or make a small ***** in the insulation so you can see the copper wire to put your test leads to on each wire. Be sure to do this on the side that goes to the PCM, Not the harness that goes to the O2 Sensor. It is used for an Air reference signal and in my GM documentation say explicitly not to tap into the side towards the O2 Sensor from the connector.
You don't need to crank your car just turn the ignition all the way to the run where all your guages are illuminated. Make sure you turn the radio and A/C off so you won't have extra accessories pulling on the battery.
Put your ground lead (black) to the frame for now. Just ensure that it has very good contact with the metal.
Now with each wire probe the O2 wires that you spliced before and you should have 2 wires at first reading close to 5 volts DC and should be very stable. The other wire should be fluctuating slightly after a few minutes if the O2 sensor heater circuit is energized. So in all you should have three wires that have around 5 volts and one that is ground.
I will post back the wire colors if I can find them in a bit but this should get you started. This is so that you will know what is not getting energized if their is a problem.
Also when done, I would tape the wires individually very good so that no water can come into contact with where you pricked the insulation. Also I would then wrap tape around all 4 to keep them together.
