Just about given up on my 231/237
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From: Clermont, FL
Just about given up on my 231/237 After 2 months and 4 trips up to cartek im at wits end with this cam & trying to tune it...Ive had a slight tip in hesitation from the beginning, at first because the car was showing missfires according to tech2 cartek thought it was my wires so I changed them out and the hesitation remained...I took the liberty of swapping out my o2's as well and playing with my plug gaps in hopes that something would give in time. Finally I brought it back again yesterday and still no luck. So now im stuck between a rock & a hard place Ive got that drives 99.9% perfect around town and on the highway but from a slow roll or a stop hesitates for a split second making drag racing worthless. Julio says there are a few reasons for this 1st being 98's have less parameters hes able to adj. combined with the cam offering very little vacuum the computer is not compensating enough when i smack the throttle. Combine that with 2.73 gears and a converter not matched to the cams powerband isnt helping either. I'll be installing 4.10's pretty soon so hopefully that will help to crutch the problem, but at this point I dont want a crutch as much as I want a fix. I've thought about a mail tune from tsp since they are fairly cheap, but whos to say that will do the trick? FWIW I feel cartek has done their best to try and get the car to run right...the car has been on their dyno for about 3hrs total now and been on 2 test drives so its not for lack of trying. I've been talking about how I wouldve gone smaller, but now it looks like I might have to do that. Anyone got any suggestions?
Thanks
Bill
Thanks
Bill
Originally Posted by foff667
After 2 months and 4 trips up to cartek im at wits end with this cam & trying to tune it...Ive had a slight tip in hesitation from the beginning, at first because the car was showing missfires according to tech2 cartek thought it was my wires so I changed them out and the hesitation remained...I took the liberty of swapping out my o2's as well and playing with my plug gaps in hopes that something would give in time. Finally I brought it back again yesterday and still no luck. So now im stuck between a rock & a hard place Ive got that drives 99.9% perfect around town and on the highway but from a slow roll or a stop hesitates for a split second making drag racing worthless. Julio says there are a few reasons for this 1st being 98's have less parameters hes able to adj. combined with the cam offering very little vacuum the computer is not compensating enough when i smack the throttle. Combine that with 2.73 gears and a converter not matched to the cams powerband isnt helping either. I'll be installing 4.10's pretty soon so hopefully that will help to crutch the problem, but at this point I dont want a crutch as much as I want a fix. I've thought about a mail tune from tsp since they are fairly cheap, but whos to say that will do the trick? FWIW I feel cartek has done their best to try and get the car to run right...the car has been on their dyno for about 3hrs total now and been on 2 test drives so its not for lack of trying. I've been talking about how I wouldve gone smaller, but now it looks like I might have to do that. Anyone got any suggestions?
Thanks
Bill
Thanks
Bill
do you have EDIT at home, if so I will send my home made tune ,perhaps you may see something which will help, I am runing stock heads with bolton' with 3.32', I idle @ 675-700 hot/cold , only problem I have is jerk/snap @ 36-41 mph when cruiseing AFTER TC lockup, I have did atemp fix by set edit tables so NO lock up untill after 45mph ,STILL looking for help to correct this jerk/snap so I may lockup early again
good luck - if I can help reply back Johnny
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From: L.I. NY
Dude, you've been pimping TSP and PP all this time, so how about giving TSP a chance. Their experience with their own cam would be hard to surpass. I'm not particularly fond of you're tuner, but that's neither here nor there, it's obvious he's been trying to fix the problem with no luck. If in fact it's a tuning issue then speak to them and see if they'll send you a pretuned PCM. I'm sure they've read all about your woes and seeing as you're a very loyal customer they might help you out.
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From: Clermont, FL
Originally Posted by SilverSurfer
Dude, you've been pimping TSP and PP all this time, so how about giving TSP a chance. Their experience with their own cam would be hard to surpass. I'm not particularly fond of you're tuner, but that's neither here nor there, it's obvious he's been trying to fix the problem with no luck. If in fact it's a tuning issue then speak to them and see if they'll send you a pretuned PCM. I'm sure they've read all about your woes and seeing as you're a very loyal customer they might help you out.
so its gotta be done at the track and I just dont think as Is its gonna cut it.lata
Bill
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From: Clermont, FL
Originally Posted by MYTURBOT/A
Did they advance the cam any when they installed it? Also have you messed with the VE tables any? The VE tables should be adjusted to compensate for the larger cam.
"" cuz autos arent meant for "from a roll" races "
6 spd are a LITTLE better from a roll, but I have no dead spots with YANK ST3500 and my shifts are at 6600 and never drop below 5100
I am not quite sure about the above quote
my .02' Johnny, to each his own
6 spd are a LITTLE better from a roll, but I have no dead spots with YANK ST3500 and my shifts are at 6600 and never drop below 5100
I am not quite sure about the above quote
my .02' Johnny, to each his own
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Autos are great from a roll because all you have to do is stab and steer....but anyway, I know from experience that the off idle bog can be caused by reducing the VE tables too much. That car should be idling at 900-1000 rpms, which helps reduce off idle bog also. When you stab the gas, the engine needs to get an extra dose of fuel to prevent bogging, and then go back to its normal A/F ratio...Tuners should be aware of this. Don't give up just yet.
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i agree with above. It is a bitch to make an auto a perfect daily and all out dragster. I dunno about 4.10's. I did 3.42's and dont think any more would help with such a big stall. Its already impossible to use the nitto's at the strip due to the torque.
Maybe its time you get hptuners and start tweakin? There's only so many hours a tuner can put in your car before its unprofitable and pita. And difficult tunes sometimes can rack up 40+ hours to achieve perfection. Sometimes you gotta have a "street" tune and a "Strip tune" which is where a fast flash tool comes in handy.
based on my limited tuning experience there are alot of things that aren't optimal at low rpm's but can be worked around, but may have some impact on city (Street) vs strip driving.
man 4.10's are tiny, hope you don't shock the rear end too hard on slicks and break it.
Maybe its time you get hptuners and start tweakin? There's only so many hours a tuner can put in your car before its unprofitable and pita. And difficult tunes sometimes can rack up 40+ hours to achieve perfection. Sometimes you gotta have a "street" tune and a "Strip tune" which is where a fast flash tool comes in handy.
based on my limited tuning experience there are alot of things that aren't optimal at low rpm's but can be worked around, but may have some impact on city (Street) vs strip driving.
man 4.10's are tiny, hope you don't shock the rear end too hard on slicks and break it.
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From: Clermont, FL
Originally Posted by MyLS1Hauls
Autos are great from a roll because all you have to do is stab and steer....but anyway, I know from experience that the off idle bog can be caused by reducing the VE tables too much. That car should be idling at 900-1000 rpms, which helps reduce off idle bog also. When you stab the gas, the engine needs to get an extra dose of fuel to prevent bogging, and then go back to its normal A/F ratio...Tuners should be aware of this. Don't give up just yet.
as far as the VE tables, I dont know what he changed or even had access to...he said there were alot less parameters in 98's he was able to change & he did his best. Banned
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From: L.I. NY
Fluffy, if you wanna try messing with the car, I got the HP tuner for my 98. It's simple to use. I'm gonna be away next week, but if you wanna take a ride to LI in July and try adding a lil fuel where your dead spot is, no problem.
Wait, I just remebered something, Cartek locks the PCM (another thing I don't care for about them). See if they can unlock it so you can try the HP tuner, other wise get a TSP mail order tuned PCM. It can't hurt to ask them if they could loan it or hold a deposit on your credit card until it's returned. If they're worried about someone snatching their tune, tell them to lock it. It's for testing purposes.
Hell, if you want to you, drive up here and I'll let you borrow my PCM. You know what my car's got done to it already. You got a bigger cam, I got better flowing heads so the tune should work OK at WOT. If it idles like crap I can raise the idle a bit, I haven't delved into messing with the fuel, iac, etc tables yet.
Wait, I just remebered something, Cartek locks the PCM (another thing I don't care for about them). See if they can unlock it so you can try the HP tuner, other wise get a TSP mail order tuned PCM. It can't hurt to ask them if they could loan it or hold a deposit on your credit card until it's returned. If they're worried about someone snatching their tune, tell them to lock it. It's for testing purposes.
Hell, if you want to you, drive up here and I'll let you borrow my PCM. You know what my car's got done to it already. You got a bigger cam, I got better flowing heads so the tune should work OK at WOT. If it idles like crap I can raise the idle a bit, I haven't delved into messing with the fuel, iac, etc tables yet.
Bill-
I'd give Bruce a shot at it. (Bruce's Speed Shop located in Rockaway, NJ). If you let me know when your appointment is, I'll try to be there as well.
Tip-in stumble is usually a temporary lean condition. On carbs, it's fixed by adding accelerator pump shot (more aggressive eccentric on the throttle shaft). On GM TPI, there's a table called Acceleration Enrichment (not to be confused with Power Enrichment).
-Kevin
I'd give Bruce a shot at it. (Bruce's Speed Shop located in Rockaway, NJ). If you let me know when your appointment is, I'll try to be there as well.
Tip-in stumble is usually a temporary lean condition. On carbs, it's fixed by adding accelerator pump shot (more aggressive eccentric on the throttle shaft). On GM TPI, there's a table called Acceleration Enrichment (not to be confused with Power Enrichment).
-Kevin
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From: Clermont, FL
Originally Posted by crainholio
Bill-
I'd give Bruce a shot at it. (Bruce's Speed Shop located in Rockaway, NJ). If you let me know when your appointment is, I'll try to be there as well.
Tip-in stumble is usually a temporary lean condition. On carbs, it's fixed by adding accelerator pump shot (more aggressive eccentric on the throttle shaft). On GM TPI, there's a table called Acceleration Enrichment (not to be confused with Power Enrichment).
-Kevin
I'd give Bruce a shot at it. (Bruce's Speed Shop located in Rockaway, NJ). If you let me know when your appointment is, I'll try to be there as well.
Tip-in stumble is usually a temporary lean condition. On carbs, it's fixed by adding accelerator pump shot (more aggressive eccentric on the throttle shaft). On GM TPI, there's a table called Acceleration Enrichment (not to be confused with Power Enrichment).
-Kevin
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From: Clermont, FL
Originally Posted by SilverSurfer
Fluffy, if you wanna try messing with the car, I got the HP tuner for my 98. It's simple to use. I'm gonna be away next week, but if you wanna take a ride to LI in July and try adding a lil fuel where your dead spot is, no problem.
Wait, I just remebered something, Cartek locks the PCM (another thing I don't care for about them). See if they can unlock it so you can try the HP tuner, other wise get a TSP mail order tuned PCM. It can't hurt to ask them if they could loan it or hold a deposit on your credit card until it's returned. If they're worried about someone snatching their tune, tell them to lock it. It's for testing purposes.
Hell, if you want to you, drive up here and I'll let you borrow my PCM. You know what my car's got done to it already. You got a bigger cam, I got better flowing heads so the tune should work OK at WOT. If it idles like crap I can raise the idle a bit, I haven't delved into messing with the fuel, iac, etc tables yet.
Wait, I just remebered something, Cartek locks the PCM (another thing I don't care for about them). See if they can unlock it so you can try the HP tuner, other wise get a TSP mail order tuned PCM. It can't hurt to ask them if they could loan it or hold a deposit on your credit card until it's returned. If they're worried about someone snatching their tune, tell them to lock it. It's for testing purposes.
Hell, if you want to you, drive up here and I'll let you borrow my PCM. You know what my car's got done to it already. You got a bigger cam, I got better flowing heads so the tune should work OK at WOT. If it idles like crap I can raise the idle a bit, I haven't delved into messing with the fuel, iac, etc tables yet.
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From: Clermont, FL
Originally Posted by crainholio
Bill-
I'd give Bruce a shot at it. (Bruce's Speed Shop located in Rockaway, NJ). If you let me know when your appointment is, I'll try to be there as well.
Tip-in stumble is usually a temporary lean condition. On carbs, it's fixed by adding accelerator pump shot (more aggressive eccentric on the throttle shaft). On GM TPI, there's a table called Acceleration Enrichment (not to be confused with Power Enrichment).
-Kevin
I'd give Bruce a shot at it. (Bruce's Speed Shop located in Rockaway, NJ). If you let me know when your appointment is, I'll try to be there as well.
Tip-in stumble is usually a temporary lean condition. On carbs, it's fixed by adding accelerator pump shot (more aggressive eccentric on the throttle shaft). On GM TPI, there's a table called Acceleration Enrichment (not to be confused with Power Enrichment).
-Kevin
lata
Bill
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From: L.I. NY
Yes you can do multiple cars, unlike Edit it's not VIN locked. It will work on any 98 Fbody.
Your options as I see them, bitch about it some more or...............
1. Keep going back to Cartek, sounds like he's already hinting that he's not gonna keep working on it for free cause he's done all he can already.
2. Borrow another PCM for testing purposes. If not mine than someone you are more inclined to trust, cause that's what "thanks for the offer means", but I won't hold it against ya. LOL Contact Stu, he's on this board and EFA, and he's more than willing to help another fbody guy, plus he knows his **** when it comes to LS1 Edit. Tuned his car all by himself and it flies........11.2s at 121 on DRs.
3. Replace the cam, but many guys run bigger cams than that in 98s w/o tuning issues.
Good luck Fluffy
Your options as I see them, bitch about it some more or...............
1. Keep going back to Cartek, sounds like he's already hinting that he's not gonna keep working on it for free cause he's done all he can already.
2. Borrow another PCM for testing purposes. If not mine than someone you are more inclined to trust, cause that's what "thanks for the offer means", but I won't hold it against ya. LOL Contact Stu, he's on this board and EFA, and he's more than willing to help another fbody guy, plus he knows his **** when it comes to LS1 Edit. Tuned his car all by himself and it flies........11.2s at 121 on DRs.
3. Replace the cam, but many guys run bigger cams than that in 98s w/o tuning issues.
Good luck Fluffy
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From: Clermont, FL
thanks for teh advice john I'll see whats around the corner from me soon...most of the shops are at the N vs. S this weekend so I'll see what tsp says, then cartek since at this point its either deal with it and try and crutch it or try something else. And with most money is an issue plopping down $550 was a good chunk of money for me & now to have to put down even more is just giving me a mental beating right now when I could be spending the money on other things like gears or an ls6 intake. Sux to be me right now.
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From: new castle, ind
im having the same problems with mine on the misfire i have 3.73s and a 4400 stall also getting the air inlet temp sensor showing high voltage.I took it to the track and ran slower than i did when i had a 3500 and no cam. Its really making me mad about it but I dont know what else I can do is there anyway I could put say a 99 up computer in my car?sorry to high jack your thread
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From: Clermont, FL
Originally Posted by RJF
im having the same problems with mine on the misfire i have 3.73s and a 4400 stall also getting the air inlet temp sensor showing high voltage.I took it to the track and ran slower than i did when i had a 3500 and no cam. Its really making me mad about it but I dont know what else I can do is there anyway I could put say a 99 up computer in my car?sorry to high jack your thread