HioSSilver

iTrader: (8)

Failbook is a cluster **** to. Muh brain can't run it w/o glitching.

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

Open your wallet up smart *** and invest in his app. Put your money where your mouth is. I have the ability to read and flash, and do often for people and literally the need for this has NEVER come up. It's stupid.

HioSSilver

iTrader: (8)

The thing is for me i find myself using a laptop less and less. A power surge took my router out 3 weeks ago and a relly don't even have much need for wifi as good as phones are anymore.

So there is the need and reasoning for a phone version of tuning.

Hell we email tunes via phone hotspot to each other. Now i can see that manipulating the tunes would be easier with a laptop tho. But that's the price one would pay for being phone based.

PeteS160

Who said any thing about money. The only thing that's invested in this so far has been my time.

PeteS160

A full fledged tuning suit on a phone is possible but it's well outside of my ability to create any thing that was comparable to EFI Live, Hp Tuners or any other full blown tuning program. Now that's not to say it can't be done......tuner pro RT has already been ported into Android for OBD I stuff, while XDF's are limited it does open up a possibility though that if my app can do full read/write that the ported version of Tuner Pro could be used to modify the bin and then reflashed with my app.

There is a bluetooth device on the market that cost less then $100 and is capable of 4x high-speed read/write from a hardware perspective and the company has said they are willing to create the firmware for their device to add 4x mode and increase the buffer size to allow 4K read/write blocks( The same size blocks used by the big two tuners) if a commercial program needed such support from the device. I under stand why they haven't added the 4x high-speed yet.....why spend the time developing it if it's not going to sell more of their product.

While Highspeed mode and 4kb blocks would be nice it's not necessary for a full flash it just takes four time longer. For example 1x calibration only write using 2KB blocks in low speed mode takes just over 4 minutes on a 512K pcm and around 7 1/2 minutes for the 1mb pcm. While that's much longer then current commercial products take it's still faster then nothing.

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

And there it is. This isnt that. Plus, no one I know would want to tune from a phone. Holy cluster ****. I don't even want a "small" laptop to tune. Those fricken tables have a lot to look at.

HioSSilver

iTrader: (8)

It's ok 01ss....no need to be upset about it. I think it woukd be great to be able to log and make adjustments via phone. And i also think that no doubt a laptop is better for doin the majority of the tuning.

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

Nobody's upset. What you're saying is great, I MIGHT could get on board with that (find some usefulness). But i wanted to point out the obvious....this ISNT that. So WTF are we even talking about? Oh yeah, changing VIN numbers by phone. Brilliant. Carry on.

pantera_efi

iTrader: (1)

Hi All, The App that Pete has, if your OBD-II port is connected to a phone, would all me to call YOUR car while running down the "strip" AND change your Rev Limit.

I could ALSO "tech" your car's operation 24/7 by reading your OBD-II port.

Good Work Pete. (OBD-III)

Lance

HioSSilver

iTrader: (8)

I'm assuming it's just in beginning stages and testing if it can even be done by doing that.

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

Again which is why i said if it was able to be expanded, perhaps like Lance said, that might catch on, and find use for people. Double edged sword, I wouldnt wanna be the tuner responsible for tuning all these cars that are now calling me with their right now issues at the track. Tuners lives are hard enough. Maybe they could use it to make their lives easier? The possibilities are open at this point.

PeteS160

Let me point out that tuner pro RT has been around for a pretty long time but there are only a couple of soild XDF's for the 512K pcm's
I'd also like to point out that only 2 people have ever released a free program to read the bin out of a pcm and they both only supported the 512K version
Then I'll point out the fact that only 1 person has ever released a way to flash a bin back into a pcm and again it was targeted at one specific pcm

Any one can create Xdf's and tune any thing they want.....the issue is getting the modified bin back into the pcm and that's what the plan for this app is down the line.

PeteS160

Your correct, this app is only about 2 months old at most and it's something I only work on from time to time when I'm bored.......there's maybe 40-60 hours spent working on this app at this point.

Now in comparison a quality app typically takes 8-12 months to develop with a team working on it full time.....yea my apps months away from even being worth of being called a useful app for anything. But that's why I'm here, looking for suggestions on the direction I should go with this.

MikeyZ28SS

iTrader: (2)

Pete,
Sounds like it would be a useful tool to write "calibration" (Tune) files already created, and have the ability to swap between a few of them during a Test & Tune session at the drag strip. Yeah' I'm interested in something like that. And then as for Data-Logging, could it "dial" back into a home laptop/PC from the smart phone to record remotely to improve the tune itself when your back home/garage? Just wondering out loud...

It doesn't sound like the intent was to fully replace a computer for full tuning, but to become a very portable writing tool, with future growth into a Data-logging tool, heck as the Smart Phones keep improving, it may only need a iPad or something similar to have a larger viewable screen to fully replace a laptop, or home pc.
Pete, Lance, and any others with these skills... I have but one question on whether to develop this into a useful tool or not. Why not, what is there to lose?

V/r,
Mike

PeteS160

Not exactly sure what you mean by "Dial" back to your home computer. The phones more then capable of recording a data log and saving it as some type of file. The possible options would be email the log and view it either in a spread sheet or possibly some other type of existing program that would make the data easier to read though.

The issues would come down to how many data pids needed to be logged at once and how fast they pids would refresh and save the data. I'll use the Flashscan V2 for example, it can be used for black box data logging for up to I want to say 24 data pids at once(It's been a while it may not be 24 pids). What you don't know if how often the data it records is being captured.

To clear that up a bit before someone jumps in and says well it's real time......no....it most certainly in NOT a data log taken in real time and here's why.
When you want data from a pcm you send a message to the pcm requesting the current value of that data pid, the value it responds with is only valid for that instant in time.
So if you sent a request for the Bank 1 O2 sensor, you only see it switching at the refresh rate of the tool your using. This is one of the big things that separates code readers from professional grade scan tools. Sure they both give you the same data but how fast can it acquire and display that data is what separates them. If you take a cheap $5 elm327 and try to read data with an app like Torque and then compare it using even a $15-$20 elm327 the speed that the gauges respond with will be very noticeable and this is because the elm device can only work so fast. This is actually the reason that a lot of the cheap knock off elm327's on ebay don't work with a lot of apps. It's not because the device doesn't actually work it's that the app is requesting data faster then the device can process the information.

Now as far as what's possible....I have used an ObdLink MX and been able to transmit & receive single data requests at 0.5ms, or 2,000 requests per second however once you get into sending several pid requests at once that speed drops to about 2ms per request when requesting 5 pids for example and around 5ms per pid when requesting 20 pids at once.

In simple math, if you wanted to data log 20 items at once; it would give you 10 lines of data per second for each "sensor" or 'Item" being logged. So for example your O2 sensor would have 10 line of data per second in the data log...that's very helpful, but at the same time your Speed and Rpm will also be spitting that data out with 10 lines for each.

To make an app for some thing like this some things would need to be sorted out
1)Figuring out exactly how fast each pid request is necessary to be able to make a workable data log would be something to figure out. I guess it's possible you could overload the data bus if you occupied it at the pcm's maximum bandwidth but I have no idea how fast that is.
2)Figuring out what data pids are "generally" used would be the next step, depending on how many pids people usually use it may require some creative thinking to get a fast refresh rate if people are using 40-50 pids and are wanting high resolution in the log.
3)What format should the log be in and what would the preferred method of viewing it be? Using CSV format would be the simplest and likely the fastest method.
4)Would having the log transmitted to the web in real-time be desirable? Obviously it would use mobile data but it likely wouldn't be that much. If the data was web stored it would make sharing and tracking previous logs much easier but it would also require a dedicated web server and unique details for each user.


Now here's a creative and likely never before done idea on playing the data back. The data pids can be used both ways and things like the Elm327 and Obd Link MX have no preference how what or how the data is sent. You could.....in theory log with your phone and they use the same bluetooth dongle and a modified version of the app with a Male-to-Male DLC and play back the data log into any tool of your choice. It may be a bit hard to comprehend the idea but it can be done,I've already done something similar replicating a BCM. Imagine it the same way you used to dub cassette tapes, play a tape in one cassette player and use the headphone jack out on that player to the mic input jack on another cassette player that would record....also the same way you used to dub VHS's. It's not a fast method since it's done in real time but it would allow people to use their existing data logging software of choice.

Or maybe just standardize the log format to work in tuner pro RT since it works.... even if it's old.

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

I like this, AND it sounds more reasonable in real life. Create the files ahead of time (with say hptuners), have both/multiple on your phone, and be able to write an entire calibration anywhere anytime, as a complete unit. I could see usefulness there in nitrous, boosted, and NA cars on the street and on the track.

MikeyZ28SS

iTrader: (2)

Pete,
How soon could a "Phase 1" be rolled out provided as a basic "Write Calibration" tool?
Then Phase 2 could be more robust, record "data-logging", using a very simple single trigger to begin and end the data-log, IE, click "start" just before rolling out of the staging lane, then when the run is complete - picking up time-slip, hit "end". Then a simple file name - save - and email/store for later download and review.
You and Lance have got some mad skills... Did/Do either of you work for the US Govt; 3-Letter Agency, Military, SIGINT, perhaps? No matter, keep the ball rolling!
V/r,
Mike

PeteS160

I need a boot loader that can legally be used for any type of write to actually happen. The only person I know of that's successfully created a boot loader that can read and write a bin and isn't used in a commercial product was dimented24x7....... and I have not been able to even get in contact with him to see if he would let me use the boot loader he wrote.

I could just copy another companies boot loader but I'd rather not get sued

G Atsma

Sounds like you have the smarts to either create a boot loader or "adapt"(sounds WAY more legit than "copy") one that you know works...

pantera_efi

iTrader: (1)

Hi Pete, I said I would help.
My EXAMPLE is a Data Base of .set files (MY ECU) on a site. (1000+)
These tunes state the "mods" AND the user can pick the best fit, his choice.
This works well for most users.
THUS no "live" tech is required.
My guess is that if a .bin file's cost was $1.00, you would be rich !

I do not charge for a .set file as they ONLY work with my objects.

Hi Mike, YES = SY-17, SPA War, US Marines, US NAVY, USAF, Langley.

As for the RTOS/J-TAG, state the processor ?
I created one for the HC-11, 68332, S-167, DSP56F805
I have my Log Viewer that uses .csv file format.

Lance