Please critique my tune -also- spark tuning question
01-22-2018, 12:12 AM
#1
Please critique my tune -also- spark tuning question I've been working on this tune for a while and I'm looking for some people to critique it and tell me what they see.
3 bar SD 411 PCM
This is the latest log and tune I have....
I also have a question about spark tuning.
Here's what I've done to setup the base spark tables to begin with.
1. Copied high octane spark table into low octane thereby "unifying" both tables.
2. I then reduced the bottom right area of the spark tables by 4 to 7 degrees from the stock values as this seems to be where the boost cells are located. I was logging some knock counts there with the stock timing values.
Finally I reduced the entire spark tables by 1 degree to try to err or the side of safe
As far as tuning the spark tables here is what I've done.
What I have been doing is copying the histogram spark retard table from the scanner, then going into the tune and
"Paste Special -> Subtract"
Please, critique my tune and tell me if my spark tuning method is acceptable. I'm also attaching a picture of the spark table. I circled around what I think are the boost cells, can anyone confirm this?
3 bar SD 411 PCM
This is the latest log and tune I have....
I also have a question about spark tuning.
Here's what I've done to setup the base spark tables to begin with.
1. Copied high octane spark table into low octane thereby "unifying" both tables.
2. I then reduced the bottom right area of the spark tables by 4 to 7 degrees from the stock values as this seems to be where the boost cells are located. I was logging some knock counts there with the stock timing values.
Finally I reduced the entire spark tables by 1 degree to try to err or the side of safe
As far as tuning the spark tables here is what I've done.
What I have been doing is copying the histogram spark retard table from the scanner, then going into the tune and
"Paste Special -> Subtract"
Please, critique my tune and tell me if my spark tuning method is acceptable. I'm also attaching a picture of the spark table. I circled around what I think are the boost cells, can anyone confirm this?
01-23-2018, 08:20 AM
#4
10 Second Club
iTrader: (2)
I can't view your log because I'm on my phone, but if it's making the power expected without knock and the plugs look good then I would call that "acceptable ".
How much boost and what fuel?
When you are in high boost you are most likely actually beyond the scale on your timing table. It should reference the last number for the rpm beyond that though. I have my timing near peak torque drop a little lower then ramp back up near 6400 then drop off fast from 6800 plus just in case of an over rev.
How much boost and what fuel?
When you are in high boost you are most likely actually beyond the scale on your timing table. It should reference the last number for the rpm beyond that though. I have my timing near peak torque drop a little lower then ramp back up near 6400 then drop off fast from 6800 plus just in case of an over rev.
01-23-2018, 12:14 PM
#5
About 5 or 6 pounds of boost and 91 octane.
Okay cool. Thanks for explaining that. Would you be willing to post your tune so I could look at it???
I changed my PE and BE stuff around a little bit, seems I was entering PE just by cruising around with 30%TPS and 15 KPA as the settings.
Okay cool. Thanks for explaining that. Would you be willing to post your tune so I could look at it???
I changed my PE and BE stuff around a little bit, seems I was entering PE just by cruising around with 30%TPS and 15 KPA as the settings.
01-23-2018, 11:51 PM
#6
TECH Fanatic
About 5 or 6 pounds of boost and 91 octane.
Okay cool. Thanks for explaining that. Would you be willing to post your tune so I could look at it???
I changed my PE and BE stuff around a little bit, seems I was entering PE just by cruising around with 30%TPS and 15 KPA as the settings.
Okay cool. Thanks for explaining that. Would you be willing to post your tune so I could look at it???
I changed my PE and BE stuff around a little bit, seems I was entering PE just by cruising around with 30%TPS and 15 KPA as the settings.
I am also in my phone, so I can't see your whole tune, but a few tips I can throw in for fueling,First, set up your OLSD fuel table to the ratios you want. Stock values are on the very rich side, and will skew your VE and WB all over the place due to the constant commanded fuel changes (especially if you are using STFTs). On my car everything is set to 1.0 above 176*. My stoich is also set to 14.52, so that is 1.0 for me. Set your PE enable MAP high, something around 80-100 is fine.Set your BE MAP enable to 105. Anything under that is NOT boost. Also, make sure you change your injector data to the data from the manufacturer. All of it, offset, min, default, etc. I am assuming you have bigger injectors and a fuel pump that can hang. Incorrect data plays hell with tuning fuel. Remember that knock can be created by either too lean OR too rich. Obviously richer is better though. Best way to tune spark is either at the track using ET or a desolate piece or road and a good race logger. Not everyone wants to pay for dyno time, but that's actually the preferred method. I have been experimenting with using MAP values and IPW to try and tune spark using data logs. I'll get back to you if I find a decent way to do it. Theory there is if spark is getting more effecient, then IPW should go down, and you will also pull more vacuum , especially on decel. It's just something I've been looking into. Hth Ron
01-24-2018, 12:02 AM
#7
TECH Fanatic
About 5 or 6 pounds of boost and 91 octane.
Okay cool. Thanks for explaining that. Would you be willing to post your tune so I could look at it???
I changed my PE and BE stuff around a little bit, seems I was entering PE just by cruising around with 30%TPS and 15 KPA as the settings.
Okay cool. Thanks for explaining that. Would you be willing to post your tune so I could look at it???
I changed my PE and BE stuff around a little bit, seems I was entering PE just by cruising around with 30%TPS and 15 KPA as the settings.
I've been working on this tune for a while and I'm looking for some people to critique it and tell me what they see.
3 bar SD 411 PCM
This is the latest log and tune I have....
I also have a question about spark tuning.
Here's what I've done to setup the base spark tables to begin with.
1. Copied high octane spark table into low octane thereby "unifying" both tables.
2. I then reduced the bottom right area of the spark tables by 4 to 7 degrees from the stock values as this seems to be where the boost cells are located. I was logging some knock counts there with the stock timing values.
Finally I reduced the entire spark tables by 1 degree to try to err or the side of safe
As far as tuning the spark tables here is what I've done.
What I have been doing is copying the histogram spark retard table from the scanner, then going into the tune and
"Paste Special -> Subtract"
Please, critique my tune and tell me if my spark tuning method is acceptable. I'm also attaching a picture of the spark table. I circled around what I think are the boost cells, can anyone confirm this?
3 bar SD 411 PCM
This is the latest log and tune I have....
I also have a question about spark tuning.
Here's what I've done to setup the base spark tables to begin with.
1. Copied high octane spark table into low octane thereby "unifying" both tables.
2. I then reduced the bottom right area of the spark tables by 4 to 7 degrees from the stock values as this seems to be where the boost cells are located. I was logging some knock counts there with the stock timing values.
Finally I reduced the entire spark tables by 1 degree to try to err or the side of safe
As far as tuning the spark tables here is what I've done.
What I have been doing is copying the histogram spark retard table from the scanner, then going into the tune and
"Paste Special -> Subtract"
Please, critique my tune and tell me if my spark tuning method is acceptable. I'm also attaching a picture of the spark table. I circled around what I think are the boost cells, can anyone confirm this?
Yes the bottom right is going to be your WOT area. However, depending on your injector flow rate, you are likely far beyond the 1.36 g/cyl limit of the table. This isn't a big deal really. Just means that the bottom row becomes your WOT spark settings.You can however scale your tune to get more depth on your spark table, which is what many guys do. That and for using MAF, 512 is the limit, so scaling is required to bring it under that too. The PCM uses injector flow rate as the basis of all air calculations, like VE MAF etc... g/cyl is based on dynamic air and RPM. Dynamic air is calculated from VE.
Trending Topics
01-24-2018, 07:33 AM
#8
10 Second Club
iTrader: (2)
About 5 or 6 pounds of boost and 91 octane.
Okay cool. Thanks for explaining that. Would you be willing to post your tune so I could look at it???
I changed my PE and BE stuff around a little bit, seems I was entering PE just by cruising around with 30%TPS and 15 KPA as the settings.
Okay cool. Thanks for explaining that. Would you be willing to post your tune so I could look at it???
I changed my PE and BE stuff around a little bit, seems I was entering PE just by cruising around with 30%TPS and 15 KPA as the settings.
Honestly I'd rather you not copy what I do. My wot tuning is still only about 90 percent complete. Cold weather and a failing trans out a hault to it. I'm running 9 to 10 lbs of boost on a cam only sbe so there are areas of the VE table I never get into. I do go ahead and continue the rate of increase on the VE table for the areas I don't get into as well as drop timing from 6800 rpm up even though I "shouldn't" get into those areas. When I was doing some logging on a wot pull my trans didn't shift from 2 to 3. I spun up to 7000 rpm before I realized it wasn't shifting and lifted. Due to the nature of the procharger I saw over 11 pounds of boost on 93 octane with a stock bottom end. Because of the way I had my VE and timing setup I was in the low 10's for AFR and only 7 for timing. Obviously way to rich, but it may have been a safety blanket that saved my motor. One piece of advice I would also share is...learn to read plugs if you don't already know how. Plugs will tell the true story even if your knock sensors or wideband is lying to you.
01-28-2018, 05:07 PM
#9
Well the thing runs good. AFR is usually pretty decent around cruise and when you open the throttle it commands PE or BE so it's nice and rich there. No spark knock after taking a few degrees out here and there.
DAMN BCNUL8R!!!! Didn't know you had such a top secret tune
I wasn't going to copy anything, rather do a compare and see what all is different, then maybe ask questions about it to continue my learning process. But that's ok 
And as far as my injectors. I'm running stock truck injectors, but decapped, haven't touched a thing in the tune for them other than changing the IFR table from 24 to 75 across the board.
THE ONLY thing I really can't figure out at this point is how to make it leaner at idle and closed or near closed throttle....... I have adjusted those cells in the VE table, even using the RTT tuning function, can't seem to change it there. Is there a separate table or something I should be looking at for that area to lean it out a bit or what? It isn't a problem, just wasting a little fuel there.....
DAMN BCNUL8R!!!! Didn't know you had such a top secret tune
I wasn't going to copy anything, rather do a compare and see what all is different, then maybe ask questions about it to continue my learning process. But that's ok And as far as my injectors. I'm running stock truck injectors, but decapped, haven't touched a thing in the tune for them other than changing the IFR table from 24 to 75 across the board.
THE ONLY thing I really can't figure out at this point is how to make it leaner at idle and closed or near closed throttle....... I have adjusted those cells in the VE table, even using the RTT tuning function, can't seem to change it there. Is there a separate table or something I should be looking at for that area to lean it out a bit or what? It isn't a problem, just wasting a little fuel there.....
01-29-2018, 07:01 PM
#11
But i will when i get to work in the am. 1 thing that helped my idle AFR is under engine fuel transient. Transient Min fuel milligrams is what your looking for. I ended up bringing mine down to 0.014 iirc stock is usually 0.041. I would cut it in half and see where that puts you. You can look at my tune from my post if you want
Edit- my min fuel milligrams is currently at 0.016. Dont forget the 0, it wont start at 0.16, ask me how i know lol
01-29-2018, 08:26 PM
#12
Now im on my phone and cant read your tune
But i will when i get to work in the am. 1 thing that helped my idle AFR is under engine fuel transient. Transient Min fuel milligrams is what your looking for. I ended up bringing mine down to 0.014 iirc stock is usually 0.041. I would cut it in half and see where that puts you. You can look at my tune from my post if you want
Edit- my min fuel milligrams is currently at 0.016. Dont forget the 0, it wont start at 0.16, ask me how i know lol
But i will when i get to work in the am. 1 thing that helped my idle AFR is under engine fuel transient. Transient Min fuel milligrams is what your looking for. I ended up bringing mine down to 0.014 iirc stock is usually 0.041. I would cut it in half and see where that puts you. You can look at my tune from my post if you want
Edit- my min fuel milligrams is currently at 0.016. Dont forget the 0, it wont start at 0.16, ask me how i know lol
That's interesting. I will experiment with those changes in transient min fuel and see how it goes. I have two questions, how did you decide that you needed to tweak that? And do you think changing it will throw the VE off? No big deal if so, just log some more AFR error % and fix it right up.
01-29-2018, 08:32 PM
#13
That's interesting. I will experiment with those changes in transient min fuel and see how it goes. I have two questions, how did you decide that you needed to tweak that? And do you think changing it will throw the VE off? No big deal if so, just log some more AFR error % and fix it right up.
https://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?30523-Hp-tuners-80lb-injectors-rich-idle-Idea-s
Theres a good thread talking about rich idle and adjusting min fuel milligrams. You may also need to lower the min pulse width and short pulse adder. Check the settings in my tune and see what itll do. Im gonna compare your flow rate and offset tables to mine also
Last edited by Lsxford; 01-29-2018 at 08:45 PM.
01-29-2018, 08:53 PM
#14
TECH Fanatic
Keep an eye on your IAT too. If it's getting leaner as it gets hot, then the computer is over correcting for IAT. If you go to engine-airflow-general-cylinder charge temperature, then this can be adjusted. I haven't found a way to actually log a correction, yet, but moving the bias towards ECT will fix a lean hot idle. If it's rich when hot, move it back towards IAT.
01-29-2018, 09:11 PM
#15
TECH Fanatic
You should really try and find injector data for those injectors. If they are OEM Bosch, or similar this shouldn't be too difficult. Without the right data, you can end up chasing your tail trying to tune for fuel. It's pretty frustrating. Your flow rate shouldn't be a straight line. It should increase with pressure. At idle, there is more vacuum, as in a lower kpa value. Injectors don't need to spray as hard, per say, to get the fuel into the cylinder. So they are set to a lower flow, and as pressure increases, flow is also increased. This could also be causing your rich idle.
I'm on my phone, again, so I can't see your tune, again. Sorry. I will say though 75 IFR is pretty high for "truck" injectors. Those are probably around 60-65 pounders @ 43.5 psi. That's just a guess though. In reality, it doesn't matter what the numbers are on the flow rate. Only the slope. That's where you start when scaling a tune. Obviously changing the numbers will affect EVERYTHING that has to do with airflow. Typically it's better not to change the idle stuff because it doesn't respond to scaling very well.
If I were you I'd be researching what kind of injectors you have, and trying to get data for them. All of the data. Offset, min, add, default, and obviously flow rate. You can do what you want to the flow rate numbers, but you need to have that "slope".
I'm on my phone, again, so I can't see your tune, again. Sorry. I will say though 75 IFR is pretty high for "truck" injectors. Those are probably around 60-65 pounders @ 43.5 psi. That's just a guess though. In reality, it doesn't matter what the numbers are on the flow rate. Only the slope. That's where you start when scaling a tune. Obviously changing the numbers will affect EVERYTHING that has to do with airflow. Typically it's better not to change the idle stuff because it doesn't respond to scaling very well.
If I were you I'd be researching what kind of injectors you have, and trying to get data for them. All of the data. Offset, min, add, default, and obviously flow rate. You can do what you want to the flow rate numbers, but you need to have that "slope".
01-29-2018, 09:27 PM
#16
You should really try and find injector data for those injectors. If they are OEM Bosch, or similar this shouldn't be too difficult. Without the right data, you can end up chasing your tail trying to tune for fuel. It's pretty frustrating. Your flow rate shouldn't be a straight line. It should increase with pressure. At idle, there is more vacuum, as in a lower kpa value. Injectors don't need to spray as hard, per say, to get the fuel into the cylinder. So they are set to a lower flow, and as pressure increases, flow is also increased. This could also be causing your rich idle.
I'm on my phone, again, so I can't see your tune, again. Sorry. I will say though 75 IFR is pretty high for "truck" injectors. Those are probably around 60-65 pounders @ 43.5 psi. That's just a guess though. In reality, it doesn't matter what the numbers are on the flow rate. Only the slope. That's where you start when scaling a tune. Obviously changing the numbers will affect EVERYTHING that has to do with airflow. Typically it's better not to change the idle stuff because it doesn't respond to scaling very well.
If I were you I'd be researching what kind of injectors you have, and trying to get data for them. All of the data. Offset, min, add, default, and obviously flow rate. You can do what you want to the flow rate numbers, but you need to have that "slope".
I'm on my phone, again, so I can't see your tune, again. Sorry. I will say though 75 IFR is pretty high for "truck" injectors. Those are probably around 60-65 pounders @ 43.5 psi. That's just a guess though. In reality, it doesn't matter what the numbers are on the flow rate. Only the slope. That's where you start when scaling a tune. Obviously changing the numbers will affect EVERYTHING that has to do with airflow. Typically it's better not to change the idle stuff because it doesn't respond to scaling very well.
If I were you I'd be researching what kind of injectors you have, and trying to get data for them. All of the data. Offset, min, add, default, and obviously flow rate. You can do what you want to the flow rate numbers, but you need to have that "slope".
From what ive seen, after you decap the injector the only thing you must change is the flow rate. Theoretically that is the only thing that changed. It is wise to KNOW what they flow the fuel pressure you are running. The min fuel milligrams is said to be another minimum pulse width under a funky name so if youre flowing more it will need to pulse less
Theres my $0.02
01-29-2018, 09:36 PM
#17
Keep an eye on your IAT too. If it's getting leaner as it gets hot, then the computer is over correcting for IAT. If you go to engine-airflow-general-cylinder charge temperature, then this can be adjusted. I haven't found a way to actually log a correction, yet, but moving the bias towards ECT will fix a lean hot idle. If it's rich when hot, move it back towards IAT.
This is interesting tho doc do, mine does lean out when hot. I attribute it mostly from heatsoak, my iat is in my intake. I wonder if moving the bias towards the ect only affects the fuel? So its not going to affect the iat ignition retard table? I would guess no but would hate to find out the hard way
ElQueFør back to your timing tables. I have read its better to start low and work up reading the plugs. A turbo motor will not spark knock very many times under boost and keep the stock pistons alive. In some cases it only takes 1 KR to pop a ringland. I cant see the table you posted but i started at 10* and will bump it up when i get to the track
01-29-2018, 10:02 PM
#18
TECH Fanatic
This is interesting tho doc do, mine does lean out when hot. I attribute it mostly from heatsoak, my iat is in my intake. I wonder if moving the bias towards the ect only affects the fuel? So its not going to affect the iat ignition retard table? I would guess no but would hate to find out the hard way
ElQueFør back to your timing tables. I have read its better to start low and work up reading the plugs. A turbo motor will not spark knock very many times under boost and keep the stock pistons alive. In some cases it only takes 1 KR to pop a ringland. I cant see the table you posted but i started at 10* and will bump it up when i get to the track
ElQueFør back to your timing tables. I have read its better to start low and work up reading the plugs. A turbo motor will not spark knock very many times under boost and keep the stock pistons alive. In some cases it only takes 1 KR to pop a ringland. I cant see the table you posted but i started at 10* and will bump it up when i get to the track
The bias shouldn't affect your IAT spark. It's used to measure airflow. The VE has to be redone when you change this table though. And yes, biasing ECT will bring your lean idle numbers down because the computer is over-correcting.
01-29-2018, 11:26 PM
#19
Searching for having a rich idle. In the hptuners software it says it is for transient situations, but many many people have said it also affects idle. After i cut mine in half it helped mine immensely, then i tweaked it down a few more ticks. I may actually bump it back up a few ticks because it does affect transients also, ie quick throttle changes. It shouldnt affect your VE table much, mostly in the idle region
https://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?30523-Hp-tuners-80lb-injectors-rich-idle-Idea-s
Theres a good thread talking about rich idle and adjusting min fuel milligrams. You may also need to lower the min pulse width and short pulse adder. Check the settings in my tune and see what itll do. Im gonna compare your flow rate and offset tables to mine also
https://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?30523-Hp-tuners-80lb-injectors-rich-idle-Idea-s
Theres a good thread talking about rich idle and adjusting min fuel milligrams. You may also need to lower the min pulse width and short pulse adder. Check the settings in my tune and see what itll do. Im gonna compare your flow rate and offset tables to mine also
Keep an eye on your IAT too. If it's getting leaner as it gets hot, then the computer is over correcting for IAT. If you go to engine-airflow-general-cylinder charge temperature, then this can be adjusted. I haven't found a way to actually log a correction, yet, but moving the bias towards ECT will fix a lean hot idle. If it's rich when hot, move it back towards IAT.
You should really try and find injector data for those injectors. If they are OEM Bosch, or similar this shouldn't be too difficult. Without the right data, you can end up chasing your tail trying to tune for fuel. It's pretty frustrating. Your flow rate shouldn't be a straight line. It should increase with pressure. At idle, there is more vacuum, as in a lower kpa value. Injectors don't need to spray as hard, per say, to get the fuel into the cylinder. So they are set to a lower flow, and as pressure increases, flow is also increased. This could also be causing your rich idle.
I'm on my phone, again, so I can't see your tune, again. Sorry. I will say though 75 IFR is pretty high for "truck" injectors. Those are probably around 60-65 pounders @ 43.5 psi. That's just a guess though. In reality, it doesn't matter what the numbers are on the flow rate. Only the slope. That's where you start when scaling a tune. Obviously changing the numbers will affect EVERYTHING that has to do with airflow. Typically it's better not to change the idle stuff because it doesn't respond to scaling very well.
If I were you I'd be researching what kind of injectors you have, and trying to get data for them. All of the data. Offset, min, add, default, and obviously flow rate. You can do what you want to the flow rate numbers, but you need to have that "slope".
I'm on my phone, again, so I can't see your tune, again. Sorry. I will say though 75 IFR is pretty high for "truck" injectors. Those are probably around 60-65 pounders @ 43.5 psi. That's just a guess though. In reality, it doesn't matter what the numbers are on the flow rate. Only the slope. That's where you start when scaling a tune. Obviously changing the numbers will affect EVERYTHING that has to do with airflow. Typically it's better not to change the idle stuff because it doesn't respond to scaling very well.
If I were you I'd be researching what kind of injectors you have, and trying to get data for them. All of the data. Offset, min, add, default, and obviously flow rate. You can do what you want to the flow rate numbers, but you need to have that "slope".
If you have a vacuum/boost referenced fuel pressure regulator then your flow rate indeed should be a flat line. The regulator adjust the fuel pressure based on vacuum or boost so it overcomes the need for the slope. The factory gm trucks with the referenced fpr on the rail are set up like this.
From what ive seen, after you decap the injector the only thing you must change is the flow rate. Theoretically that is the only thing that changed. It is wise to KNOW what they flow the fuel pressure you are running. The min fuel milligrams is said to be another minimum pulse width under a funky name so if youre flowing more it will need to pulse less
Theres my $0.02
From what ive seen, after you decap the injector the only thing you must change is the flow rate. Theoretically that is the only thing that changed. It is wise to KNOW what they flow the fuel pressure you are running. The min fuel milligrams is said to be another minimum pulse width under a funky name so if youre flowing more it will need to pulse less
Theres my $0.02
This is interesting tho doc do, mine does lean out when hot. I attribute it mostly from heatsoak, my iat is in my intake. I wonder if moving the bias towards the ect only affects the fuel? So its not going to affect the iat ignition retard table? I would guess no but would hate to find out the hard way
ElQueFør back to your timing tables. I have read its better to start low and work up reading the plugs. A turbo motor will not spark knock very many times under boost and keep the stock pistons alive. In some cases it only takes 1 KR to pop a ringland. I cant see the table you posted but i started at 10* and will bump it up when i get to the track
ElQueFør back to your timing tables. I have read its better to start low and work up reading the plugs. A turbo motor will not spark knock very many times under boost and keep the stock pistons alive. In some cases it only takes 1 KR to pop a ringland. I cant see the table you posted but i started at 10* and will bump it up when i get to the track
I didn't see if he said he was running a regulator or not. In that case then he wouldn't need the slope since it's accounted for already, as you said in your other post. However not having the regulator in there could easily cause his problem.
The bias shouldn't affect your IAT spark. It's used to measure airflow. The VE has to be redone when you change this table though. And yes, biasing ECT will bring your lean idle numbers down because the computer is over-correcting.
The bias shouldn't affect your IAT spark. It's used to measure airflow. The VE has to be redone when you change this table though. And yes, biasing ECT will bring your lean idle numbers down because the computer is over-correcting.
Last edited by ElQueFør; 01-29-2018 at 11:33 PM.
01-30-2018, 12:10 AM
#20
TECH Fanatic
Use trap speed and avoid spinning wheels to adjust your spark, if you are using this method. Consistency is the name of the game. You can't make adjustments too well if your numbers keep changing, without adjustments. That's kind of the point, in order to make said adjustments you need a reliable baseline to adjust from, if that makes sense. ET only measures how well you drove or reacted, or how well you hooked up. You want to test your car, not yourself. I may have mistakenly said ET in one of my posts earlier. I meant trap speed. The best way is obviously the dyno. When you stop making more power or torque, then there's no sense in going farther.
I'm glad we were able to help you learn a few things. I've been doing this a while and I still learn little tricks and ways to do things. Keep us updated, we're here to help.
I'm glad we were able to help you learn a few things. I've been doing this a while and I still learn little tricks and ways to do things. Keep us updated, we're here to help.