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Old 01-08-2019, 12:06 AM
  #361  
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of course I probably shouldn't chime in on tunerpro stuff...I cant even figure out the data logger
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Old 01-08-2019, 12:29 AM
  #362  
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Originally Posted by truckdoug View Post
NSFW: can I bug you about alpha-N tuning via PM? I've been tasked with tuning an E30 that's running microsquirt (and using ITB's with a turbo-yikes)
I've never done alpha-N but I can't imagine that working well with a turbo... But it's an interesting project! I'll email you.
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Old 01-08-2019, 12:47 AM
  #363  
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Originally Posted by jamesr View Post
Any way to do segment swaps on these bins with TunerPro or other software? Or do I need to create every combination of engine/trans for the 2156 and 603 OSes and pull the bins for everyone? I've already compiled a zip of all 603 OS options for segment swapping. I could do the same for 2156 and pull bins or something.
If your working with stock files that'd be pretty sweet. I was going to do something similar I just haven't had the time to sit down and do it.
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Old 01-09-2019, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by PeteS160 View Post
If your working with stock files that'd be pretty sweet. I was going to do something similar I just haven't had the time to sit down and do it.
Yeah If i can pull some VINs that have all the different combinations I should be able to flash and then read each combo. What would there be?

5.7 with 4l60 and t56 Camaro
5.7 with 4l60 and t56 Corvette (not sure if these would matter, but wouldnt hurt. They're electronic throttle but that may be able to be done in the tune. also have some other junk like dive sensors or something)
4.8 and 5.3 with 4l60e and nv manual truck
6.0 with 4l80 and nv manual truck
5.3/4l60e flex tahoe

Express van would have a 5.7 gen 1 vortec possibly running the same OS? wonder if that would work.
When I did the 603 OS I even found a 8.1/allison combo running the 603 OS so that could be a possibility.

Anything else in 02 that would be relevant?

I need to do the same with the 603 OS stuff. There's a ton of possibilities there, but without segment swapping you probably can't get a flex 4l80e tune sadly.
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Old 01-09-2019, 09:57 AM
  #365  
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Originally Posted by jamesr View Post
I don't have a car to run it in, but I tested this with a bench harness and my VCX Nano. Read great, opened in tunerpro great. Disabled VATS, wrote calibration back successfully and read with HPtuners and verified everything looks good in there. It's a 09354896 PCM (basically a 0411), used TIS2000 to put a 2002 Silverado OS and tune on it with the 12212156 OS. Can't wait to get the multi-bar OS options, flex, and P59 going. I'll see if I can track down some friends with P01 powered swaps and see if I can get them to toss one of these in there and see if it works.
Also an update to this. I did the rest of the usual standalone things on my bench harness (speed limiter, VATS, emissions, DTCs, speedo calibration, etc) and swapped it out on a guy's stock engine swap. Fired right up no problem. Figured out that his o2 sensors were not reading before or after, so just to get it around without adding 50% fuel I hooked it up and turned off the fuel trims/closed loop mode and did another write in the vehicle. Calibration update worked flawlessly and the changes worked. He drove it 25 miles home with no issues and will let me know how it goes.
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Old 01-09-2019, 10:34 AM
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awesome news!
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Old 01-09-2019, 12:46 PM
  #367  
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Originally Posted by jamesr View Post
Yeah If i can pull some VINs that have all the different combinations I should be able to flash and then read each combo. What would there be?

5.7 with 4l60 and t56 Camaro
5.7 with 4l60 and t56 Corvette (not sure if these would matter, but wouldnt hurt. They're electronic throttle but that may be able to be done in the tune. also have some other junk like dive sensors or something)
4.8 and 5.3 with 4l60e and nv manual truck
6.0 with 4l80 and nv manual truck
5.3/4l60e flex tahoe

Express van would have a 5.7 gen 1 vortec possibly running the same OS? wonder if that would work.
When I did the 603 OS I even found a 8.1/allison combo running the 603 OS so that could be a possibility.

Anything else in 02 that would be relevant?

I need to do the same with the 603 OS stuff. There's a ton of possibilities there, but without segment swapping you probably can't get a flex 4l80e tune sadly.
Your correct, there are a ton of combinations and a great deal of them require segment swapping.

2156 OS
F body 12 combinations possible for DBW and 12 more if you add DBC
Y body 6 combinations DBW, 6 more for DBC(I've seen it done)

Then swap applications would need DBC and DBW for 4.8,5.3,5.7,6.0 with 4l60e,4l80e,manual and then variants of each using the express-van vehicle segment to allow PWM in/out gas gauge.

The 2002 express works on the 96-02 SBC Vortec 5.0/5.7 using the 4x crank trigger and can be done 4l60e,4l80e,manual trans etc.

Can also create support for the 93/94 and 95 4l60E transmissions that don't normally interchange in place of the 96+ 4l60E.

It ends up being something like almost 100 possible variations that can be built using just the one OS. Once you step back and look at how many ways it can be configured it become a rather daunting task to try and create support for all possible combinations. If you were to segment swap things it would drastically cut down the number of vins you would need to flash to get stock files. For example I you have a stock LQ4 DBC engine segment you can use that with any trans combo in any application.The LQ4 bin would have a 4l80e trans segment that could also be used. Next you get an LM7 vin and you have the 5.3 segment that can be setup with a 4l80E and you can also use the 4l60E segment with the LQ4 engine segment. Now take your F body stock file and swap in a 4l80 segment for another file and then go back and swap in the 5.3 segment in place of the 5.7 one.

The hard part would be clearly identifying what file was built for what combination and then creating a filing structure that would make files easy to sort though. It's very doable but it's going to be time consuming and require some precision since theres no way to "test" every possible file to make sure it's setup correctly until its used in the application it was built for.

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Old 01-09-2019, 12:57 PM
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So truckdoug replied above saying when you segment swap that stuff gets out of place in the bin file often. So any segment swapped ones may require updated XDFs to go with them?

Do we think all factory combinations using the 2156 OS would work with the currently available 2156 XDF correctly, even the less common combos like the express van 5.7 and the 8.1 maybe? If i can just segment swap them all in hp tuners and read the bins that's definitely easy enough if it's useful.

Originally Posted by PeteS160 View Post
Your correct, there are a ton of combinations and a great deal of them require segment swapping.

2156 OS
F body 12 combinations possible for DBW and 12 more if you add DBC
Y body 6 combinations DBW, 6 more for DBC(I've seen it done)

Then swap applications would need DBC and DBW for 4.8,5.3,5.7,6.0 with 4l60e,4l80e,manual and then variants of each using the express-van vehicle segment to allow PWM in/out gas gauge.

The 2002 express works on the 96-02 SBC Vortec 5.0/5.7 using the 4x crank trigger and can be done 4l60e,4l80e,manual trans etc.

Can also create support for the 93/94 and 95 4l60E transmissions that don't normally interchange in place of the 96+ 4l60E.

It ends up being something like almost 100 possible variations that can be built using just the one OS. Once you step back and look at how many ways it can be configured it become a rather daunting task to try and create support for all possible combinations. If you were to segment swap things it would drastically cut down the number of vins you would need to flash to get stock files. For example I you have a stock LQ4 DBC engine segment you can use that with any trans combo in any application.The LQ4 bin would have a 4l80e trans segment that could also be used. Next you get an LM7 vin and you have the 5.3 segment that can be setup with a 4l80E and you can also use the 4l60E segment with the LQ4 engine segment. Now take your F body stock file and swap in a 4l80 segment for another file and then go back and swap in the 5.3 segment in place of the 5.7 one.

The hard part would be clearly identifying what file was built for what combination and then creating a filing structure that would make files easy to sort though. It's very doable but it's going to be time consuming and require some precision since theres no way to "test" every possible file to make sure it's setup correctly until its used in the application it was built for.
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Old 01-09-2019, 01:00 PM
  #369  
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Originally Posted by NSFW View Post
I've never done alpha-N but I can't imagine that working well with a turbo... But it's an interesting project! I'll email you.
Alpha N is very common even with boosted applications.

And it can be done from simple, to not so simple, but the most common application would be ITB setups. Wouldnt be my first choice either, some do prefer it though. But even it's just a basic TPS vs RPM with MAP compensation...it's just more tables than are necessary. And to do it right means it really needs TPS vs RPM, as well as MAP vs RPM compensation table, so you're tuning 2 tables for both fuel/spark all the time which most of the time just isnt needed or of any benefit.

Although not sure what way it would then apply if also using MAF too.
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Old 01-09-2019, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by stevieturbo View Post
Alpha N is very common even with boosted applications.

And it can be done from simple, to not so simple, but the most common application would be ITB setups. Wouldnt be my first choice either, some do prefer it though. But even it's just a basic TPS vs RPM with MAP compensation...it's just more tables than are necessary. And to do it right means it really needs TPS vs RPM, as well as MAP vs RPM compensation table, so you're tuning 2 tables for both fuel/spark all the time which most of the time just isnt needed or of any benefit.

Although not sure what way it would then apply if also using MAF too.

yeah thats the set up, e30 with an m50 swap, ITB's and a turbo...running microsquirt. any tips? maybe PM me since it's kinda outside the purview of this thread topic?
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Old 01-09-2019, 03:44 PM
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As said, I know people who do it, but it isnt something I'd choose to do myself ( other than the exception below )

Back around 2002 when I first moved to EFI, I was forced to use it on my own car, but a year or two after the software was updated to allow MAP vs RPM, so I changed to it then.
That system was very basic though, where it was TPS vs RPM, with a simple 2d table for MAP compensations for fuel and spark respectively. But even that simple approach wasnt ideal. In theory though if you can tune it n/a first with no boost...then with 1 bar ( gauge ) it should require 2x as much fuel, etc etc. Reality wont work like that though so you end up needing to tune two tables for everything.

I might soon be doing a 1M for a friend though and the aftermarket ecu for it has its base map as Alpha N because they run the "MAP" sensor in the intake prior to the TB,s so it wont ever see vacuum.

Easiest...change intake and fit a single throttle lol.
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Old 01-09-2019, 10:48 PM
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Mildly off topic but I believe the right people may be in here. Any way to flash a tuner locked E40 PCM back to stock. Doesn't seem too happy using my TIS2000 and Vcxnano, but I've never tried a locked one. I know you guys know how to defeat the p01 and p59. Someone gave me a locked one because it was worthless to them. May be to me too lol
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Old 01-10-2019, 03:17 AM
  #373  
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Originally Posted by jamesr View Post
Mildly off topic but I believe the right people may be in here. Any way to flash a tuner locked E40 PCM back to stock. Doesn't seem too happy using my TIS2000 and Vcxnano, but I've never tried a locked one. I know you guys know how to defeat the p01 and p59. Someone gave me a locked one because it was worthless to them. May be to me too lol
I have an E40 but haven't done much with it. Worst case you would need to run all 65K keys on it to find the unlock. Its also possible you can try and read the pcm so that the unlock request is sent at the same time the pcm turns on. You have a fraction of a second window that the pcm will not be locked where you could get past the lock.

All the E series pcm's suck since you can't get to the front of the pcb with out destroying the pcm so it makes tinkering in there on a live pcm impossible.
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Old 01-10-2019, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by PeteS160 View Post
I have an E40 but haven't done much with it. Worst case you would need to run all 65K keys on it to find the unlock. Its also possible you can try and read the pcm so that the unlock request is sent at the same time the pcm turns on. You have a fraction of a second window that the pcm will not be locked where you could get past the lock.

All the E series pcm's suck since you can't get to the front of the pcb with out destroying the pcm so it makes tinkering in there on a live pcm impossible.
Well seems like it's a paperweight. If you want a spare one to destroy pm me your address lol
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Old 01-11-2019, 01:28 PM
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I havent read through everything in this thread, but quick question?

Can parts of the calibration that are not available from HPTuners because its locked out in the background, even though it appears in the software (i.e. lean cruise functionality) be made functional? That would be amazing. If this could open up the doors to more functionality, reflash, and then pull it back out with hptuners to finish the calibration. Or use your nice software interface thats being developed. Either way. Thanks and incredible work guys!
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Old 01-12-2019, 01:41 AM
  #376  
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Originally Posted by roastin240 View Post
I havent read through everything in this thread, but quick question?

Can parts of the calibration that are not available from HPTuners because its locked out in the background, even though it appears in the software (i.e. lean cruise functionality) be made functional? That would be amazing. If this could open up the doors to more functionality, reflash, and then pull it back out with hptuners to finish the calibration. Or use your nice software interface thats being developed. Either way. Thanks and incredible work guys!
Probably, mostly. However, that kind of thing takes a lot of work, so it won't all happen quickly. And for really complex stuff, it can be pretty close to impossible to figure it out, but there's still a good chance we can figure out enough to be useful.

With my Subaru, for example... I found some tables for their wall-wetting modeling (also called "tau") and was able to figure out about half of it. That was enough to make a big improvement. With the stock calibration, about one second after hitting full boost, AFR would dip rich for another second, like into the high 9s when I wanted 11:1. I found that the wall wetting code as causing half of that problem (you can data log it). After some work I was able to zero it out at high load, and now it only dips to the mid-10s or so (and logs show wall-wetting compensation staying at zero). And then I posted a thread about how to find those tables, and some other guys who do reverse engineering on Subaru have found those tables for a bunch of other models and years.

It's enough of an improvement that the engine no longer feels like it's losing power during that dip. However if I'd been able to really figure it out, I might have been able to make it pull the AFR leaner, to counteract whatever is causing the remaining rich dip, and solve the problem completely. But reverse engineering is hard, and getting AFR to stay in the mid-10s made such a big improvement that I didn't have much motivation to keep working on it.

Last edited by NSFW; 01-12-2019 at 02:13 AM.
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Old 01-12-2019, 11:13 AM
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I have a 7604 gto OS that has lean cruise if you'd like it. the xdf layout appears very similar to the more common 7603 OS
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Old 01-13-2019, 06:59 AM
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Full maps? Matching up Seek/Key Algorithm w/ OS? Seed/Key Algo? Write Algorithms? Code? PID/DPID/CPID? Let me know, more than happy to contribute.
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Old 01-13-2019, 03:13 PM
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The biggest issues right now:

1) After reflashing my car, I get a check-engine light and a P1518 error code, which is related to PCM-TAC communications. The car drives just fine, and people have reported that with commercial products too, and apparently it will go away after a few drive cycles... so it's not a show-stopper, but I'd like to get rid of it. I tried sending two different messages to clear that code, but it's still there. The dashboard code reader shows no codes at all, but OBD2 software shows P1518.

2) We haven't got the flash chip ID code to work properly with AMD's flash chips. It just returns the first four bytes of memory, instead of returning the flash chip ID. Once that is figured out I think we'll have P59 support.

3) The current release won't stop you from flashing content from one operating system into a PCM that's already got a different operating system. I've already added code to prevent that, and it will be in the next release.

If anyone knows how to force the P1518 code to go away, I'd love to hear about it.
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Old 01-13-2019, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by NSFW View Post
3) The current release won't stop you from flashing content from one operating system into a PCM that's already got a different operating system. I've already added code to prevent that, and it will be in the next release.
Maybe I missed some basic info, but will this not overwrite the OS completely with a new OS?
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