Rich on e85 stoich
08-22-2018, 12:36 AM
#21
I tune the way I do because I like the system “calibrated”
I want to see commanded Lambda equal actual Lambda.
Makes no diff if you choose to use AFR.
HPT accommodates either scenario.
Sure you can change the VE, shoot, you can just change commanded fuel until what comes out the tailpipe is good.
Anyway, OP’s car wasn’t tuned well on gas, so it ain’t gonna track like it should. And it isn’t.
ron
I want to see commanded Lambda equal actual Lambda.
Makes no diff if you choose to use AFR.
HPT accommodates either scenario.
Sure you can change the VE, shoot, you can just change commanded fuel until what comes out the tailpipe is good.
Anyway, OP’s car wasn’t tuned well on gas, so it ain’t gonna track like it should. And it isn’t.
ron
08-22-2018, 03:41 AM
#22
10 Second Club
iTrader: (2)
I tune the way I do because I like the system “calibrated”
I want to see commanded Lambda equal actual Lambda.
Makes no diff if you choose to use AFR.
HPT accommodates either scenario.
Sure you can change the VE, shoot, you can just change commanded fuel until what comes out the tailpipe is good.
Anyway, OP’s car wasn’t tuned well on gas, so it ain’t gonna track like it should. And it isn’t.
ron
I want to see commanded Lambda equal actual Lambda.
Makes no diff if you choose to use AFR.
HPT accommodates either scenario.
Sure you can change the VE, shoot, you can just change commanded fuel until what comes out the tailpipe is good.
Anyway, OP’s car wasn’t tuned well on gas, so it ain’t gonna track like it should. And it isn’t.
ron
08-22-2018, 09:53 AM
#23
^^^ I agree if its tuned correctly on gas from the getgo and u decide to swtich to E I would just change the Stoich ratio. Its the correct way of doing, that's what its used for (same as flex tune), but like I said before some people choose to add 30% to the VE. Are they wrong for doing it this way?! NO. Either way works!
Everybody has there way of tuning, and what they are familiar with. As long as its tuned correctly, using Lambda or AFR I wouldn't worry about it. If the tunes good, its good no matter what it took to get it there!
As for the OP, His car just needs a good tune on it. Something wasn't right before the switch to E. If the tune was correct the AFR would have followed the switch. All u need to do it just start tuning it on E. Everything will eventually fall in line!
Everybody has there way of tuning, and what they are familiar with. As long as its tuned correctly, using Lambda or AFR I wouldn't worry about it. If the tunes good, its good no matter what it took to get it there!
As for the OP, His car just needs a good tune on it. Something wasn't right before the switch to E. If the tune was correct the AFR would have followed the switch. All u need to do it just start tuning it on E. Everything will eventually fall in line!
08-22-2018, 06:10 PM
#24
I tune the way I do because I like the system “calibrated”
I want to see commanded Lambda equal actual Lambda.
Makes no diff if you choose to use AFR.
HPT accommodates either scenario.
Sure you can change the VE, shoot, you can just change commanded fuel until what comes out the tailpipe is good.
Anyway, OP’s car wasn’t tuned well on gas, so it ain’t gonna track like it should. And it isn’t.
ron
I want to see commanded Lambda equal actual Lambda.
Makes no diff if you choose to use AFR.
HPT accommodates either scenario.
Sure you can change the VE, shoot, you can just change commanded fuel until what comes out the tailpipe is good.
Anyway, OP’s car wasn’t tuned well on gas, so it ain’t gonna track like it should. And it isn’t.
ron
08-22-2018, 11:45 PM
#25
If you dont change stoich and add fuel to the VE and have your wideband on a gas scale then commanded will equal actual still. I personal think the best way is to just use lambda and change stoich just like the factory does, but both ways will end up with the same end result.
As I said, you can just change PE to get the tailpipe reading correct. You can change injector flow to do the same. Lots of buttons to push...…
You ought to see how folks tune the Dodges, which are all SD calibrations. Maybe you have.
At any rate, you have way more experience than me. I've followed you and your tuning for quite some time. You have my respect.
I've just seen so many hacked LS and Dodge tunes that I just stick to Banish tuning methods which I feel is about accurate calibration.
Ron
08-23-2018, 11:52 AM
#26
10 Second Club
iTrader: (2)
I’m still using the gas scale and choose to change stoich to the actual value for the fuel I’m using rather than hack up the VE table. I run E70 and enter 10.7 as my stoich. The only issue is it makes your AFR percentage error histogram look funky. For a shop doing a large number of vehicles and time constraints lambda makes sense. For me doing my own stuff and helping friends using the gas scale isn’t an issue. It’s easy to see on my histogram with a 10.7 stoich a 37 percent error using the gas scale is dead on while higher error is lean and lower error is rich. Not hacking the VE makes sure all other calculations are correct. No issues with an auto trans and even my delivered torque calculations seem dead on.
08-23-2018, 11:56 AM
#27
I’m still using the gas scale and choose to change stoich to the actual value for the fuel I’m using rather than hack up the VE table. I run E70 and enter 10.7 as my stoich. The only issue is it makes your AFR percentage error histogram look funky. For a shop doing a large number of vehicles and time constraints lambda makes sense. For me doing my own stuff and helping friends using the gas scale isn’t an issue. It’s easy to see on my histogram with a 10.7 stoich a 37 percent error using the gas scale is dead on while higher error is lean and lower error is rich. Not hacking the VE makes sure all other calculations are correct. No issues with an auto trans and even my delivered torque calculations seem dead on.
08-23-2018, 12:01 PM
#28
10 Second Club
iTrader: (2)
Just to explain where I get the 37 percent error as being dead on using the gas scale...
10.7 stoich divided by 1.28 equals a commanded 8.359 on E70. Since my wideband reads on the gas scale that equals a 11.45 afr. 8.359 X 1.37 equals 11.45 so a 37 percent error is dead on while a higher percentage is lean and a lower percentage is rich. It works for me. LOL
10.7 stoich divided by 1.28 equals a commanded 8.359 on E70. Since my wideband reads on the gas scale that equals a 11.45 afr. 8.359 X 1.37 equals 11.45 so a 37 percent error is dead on while a higher percentage is lean and a lower percentage is rich. It works for me. LOL
08-23-2018, 12:42 PM
#29
TECH Senior Member
+1 on "use lambda and change stoich".
Note that increasing VE has other side effects...
this causes the DYNAIR g/cyl value to go up, this then references a different column in the spark tables...
both of those cause the engine toque calculation to change, this causes trans line pressure to change.
Note that increasing VE has other side effects...
this causes the DYNAIR g/cyl value to go up, this then references a different column in the spark tables...
both of those cause the engine toque calculation to change, this causes trans line pressure to change.
08-23-2018, 01:21 PM
#31
10 Second Club
iTrader: (2)
Its actually extremely easy. The tune is sound and understanding the AFR percentage histogram in the scanner is no issue for me. I understand lambda as well, but use what works for me. This is absolutely not an argument that my way is better only offering up a way to use the gas scale with E without hacking up the VE table so you don’t cause other issues like those joecar mentioned.
09-06-2018, 02:06 AM
#36
Not to mention the ideal lambda ratio changes a bit depending on what fuel is used. Also the need to be aware of the differences in tuning window between those fuels can be an issue. By the time you have all of that relevant info, whether you tune in lambda or AFR is academic. You either know what is needed or you don't.