Can't get tune right
09-26-2018, 08:55 AM
#21
Drilling a hole in the throttle body is exactly the type of stuff gametech is talking about....hack moves. There is absolutely NO reason to do that unless it has the biggest if the big cams. That's old school tech for people who don't know how to setup and tune a car properly.
Please explain why GM equipped cars with vastly different hole sizes then. I have a pile of cable tb's and not one has the same size hole. Its a tuner trying to lure business who said tb hole sizes are not required to match the cam and displacement of the engine. Throttle stepper valves are slow and painful at the best of times
09-26-2018, 09:16 AM
#22
Drilling a hole in the throttle body is exactly the type of stuff gametech is talking about....hack moves. There is absolutely NO reason to do that unless it has the biggest if the big cams. That's old school tech for people who don't know how to setup and tune a car properly.
My stock gto came with a hole.
My expensive billet nick willams 92mm that I purchased brand new came with a hole.
Not trying to disagree, but just saying.
I don’t believe a hole is a hack way of doing it.
First off, some engines pull a lot of vacuum. If your using a cheapie throttle body that didn’t come with a hole (that’s a hack job right there) then the vacuum on the throttle blade can cause you headaches. Ever notice how stiff an aftermarket throttle body is? I bet they spring it stiffer like that because of this.
A throttle blade can be adjusted only so far before you run out of tps adjustment. Well you have to slot the tps to be able to move it. If anything, slotting the tps and cutting the peg off is a hack job. Gm didn’t do that, but gm did drill holes.
Now, the above is meant towards a cable throttle body. If you have a electronic throttle body then you shouldn’t drill a hole. I guess that would be a hack way of doing it. EXCEPT when you have an extremely large cam and run out of adjustment with the ecm/throttle body.
09-26-2018, 09:27 AM
#23
Wierd...my post said NOTHING about NOT having a hole at all, it said stop drilling them out. People cant get a car to idle right and immediately drill the crap out of the TB hole. In most instances they drill it too big and have a hanging idle issue. The proper way is outlined in several tuning books by guys like Dan Maslic....and you do it with the idle set screw not a drill bit.
09-26-2018, 09:39 AM
#24
i'd check the Idle Airflow vs Coolant temp vs Gear & P/N
often times with a cam swap you'd need to increase the value in that table if there's an issue with idling. also check if theres a need to adjust the throttle body cracker/stopper to close slower than too quick.
often times with a cam swap you'd need to increase the value in that table if there's an issue with idling. also check if theres a need to adjust the throttle body cracker/stopper to close slower than too quick.
09-26-2018, 09:58 AM
#27
Wierd...my post said NOTHING about NOT having a hole at all, it said stop drilling them out. People cant get a car to idle right and immediately drill the crap out of the TB hole. In most instances they drill it too big and have a hanging idle issue. The proper way is outlined in several tuning books by guys like Dan Maslic....and you do it with the idle set screw not a drill bit.
Not trying to start any ****, but it does confuse me when people say don’t drill a hole in the throttle blade when clearly gm does it, and there’s different size holes for different engines. So with my educated assumptions, I’d assume that the hole size would vary on our combinations too. Just my humble .02.
09-26-2018, 10:20 AM
#28
with all due respect, go back and read your original post. You didn’t say anything about drilling a hole bigger. You said “drilling a hole” . My (and probably everyone else’s) interpretation of that is “drilling a hole” not “drilling the hole bigger”.
Not trying to start any ****, but it does confuse me when people say don’t drill a hole in the throttle blade when clearly gm does it, and there’s different size holes for different engines. So with my educated assumptions, I’d assume that the hole size would vary on our combinations too. Just my humble .02.
Better lol 
09-30-2018, 10:14 AM
#31
After some engine upgrades, cam, heads, LT and TQ converter. The car has never run right even after many tweeks of it's tuning. The tuner is a professional and has been featured in several automotive magazines. Yet, the car won't idle correctly what's the problem?
When coming to a quick deceleration the engine would stumble and stutter. The RPM's would swing up and down trying to find an idle speed, to the point the car would be on the verge of dying. It was even worse when the A/C was turned on. Also if you drove it a long distance and then came to a creeping roll in heavy traffic, the engine would go into that nearly dying. I'd have to shift it into neutral to keep the engine from dying. It also experiences a strange slippage at about 40-50 mph, as if the car doesn't know when to lock up the torque converter.
Any suggestions? Help please...
When coming to a quick deceleration the engine would stumble and stutter. The RPM's would swing up and down trying to find an idle speed, to the point the car would be on the verge of dying. It was even worse when the A/C was turned on. Also if you drove it a long distance and then came to a creeping roll in heavy traffic, the engine would go into that nearly dying. I'd have to shift it into neutral to keep the engine from dying. It also experiences a strange slippage at about 40-50 mph, as if the car doesn't know when to lock up the torque converter.
Any suggestions? Help please...
Since you are hesitant to purchase your own tuning software etc. then obviously someone else will have to tune it.
It is frustrating to be in the situation you are in but you have two choices. Keep going back to the original tuner with the intent that he will finally get it right, or bite the bullet and find another tuner. The problem with the second choice is that there are no guarantees your second choice will be any better than the first.
The first tuner has a contractual obligation to get it right - period. So it's important to keep the relationship between you and the tuner as civil as is possible. The squeaky wheel usually get the grease so keep going back until you are satisfied. If the car runs as poorly as it does then IMO it's best for the tuner to drive the car. It should exhibit the same POOR driveability issues with him at the wheel as you.
However, at some point, if he can't get it right - then he and you need to come to some type of agreement as to what the next step is. IMO you should get a refund. So it's best to check your anger and be civil in your discussions. You are likely to get a better result than if you try the other route (personal attacks for instance).
In the meantime, educate yourself about the tuning process. Doing so will give you a good basic understanding about what any tuner and yours needs to do in order to get your car to have good driveabilty manners and be safe to drive. That was the original agreement - all tunes from any tuner in fact.
The following link is a good start about the basics of idle tuning. You might have to read and read several times.
http://www.masterenginetuner.com/idl...ii-lsx-p1.html
BTW - if your car is tuned properly it should idle almost like stock and drive nearly as well as stock too.
I've had three cams in my ProCharged 98 Z - a 224/228 114, 232/240 115, now a 227/234 114 + 4. The 227/234 idles darn near as good as my 2012 GS Vette with an LS3.
Unfortunately, a lot of folks will tell you that all cammed cars idle bad. That is perhaps because in their experience most everyone else's car runs poorly too.
The truth, however, is that they haven't driven or rode in cars that DO. Stick to your guns with your tuner and don't accept poor drive ability just because some say "they all run like that".
Good luck.
Last edited by dlandsvZ28; 09-30-2018 at 11:41 AM.
09-30-2018, 10:46 AM
#32
TECH Senior Member
My wheels usually squeak before they get the grease... lol
09-30-2018, 11:04 AM
#34
There is no contractual obligations when you get a tune. It is HIGHLY subjective just like what is "street able" or "like stock". The tuner can literally tell you to go pound sand and there's nothing that you can do about it. I agree the OP should attempt to get the tuner to fix the tune even if he has to keep it for a week, but there is zero forcing function.
09-30-2018, 11:20 AM
#35
TECH Senior Member
09-30-2018, 11:37 AM
#36
Thanks for the post. It's good to insert some humor into these threads
And that old saying does get results more times than not once your learn how to make it work for you.
10-01-2018, 01:01 AM
#37
There is no contractual obligations when you get a tune. It is HIGHLY subjective just like what is "street able" or "like stock". The tuner can literally tell you to go pound sand and there's nothing that you can do about it. I agree the OP should attempt to get the tuner to fix the tune even if he has to keep it for a week, but there is zero forcing function.
10-01-2018, 07:39 AM
#38
People don't seem to understand this. I have no idea of what percentage of pro tuners are actually good, but I know there is a lucrative market in charlatans who prey on the unknowing. The loopholes in the idea of "street able" or "like stock" are enough to insulate the bad ones from any liability.
10-01-2018, 10:36 AM
#39
TECH Senior Member
10-01-2018, 10:40 AM
#40
Most problems with the tune are not with the commanded values, they are with a mechanical or electrical oversight and sit in the hands of the builder. Many times there is also badly mismatched parts. This is the standard that happens all the time, and the tuner catches the flack when it doesnt run right.