1998 PCM reputation
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,069
Likes: 74
From: Casselberry FL
1998 PCM reputation I've been wanting to get my spark tables optimized for awhile now. Not confident on the street due to knock sensors relocated to side of the block and not clear which logging math could interpolate MBT. A friend took his '02 Z06 to a tuner in Jacksonville FL to tune his new 468 LS7 on a load balanced dyno. He was real impressed with the tuner and recommended him to me. I contacted the tuner to verify he uses a loaded dyno to find MBT and he said he uses this type of dyno for steady state tuning... didn't say whether he used Greg's spark hook method. But, he advises he stopped tuning 98 F/Y-bodies "due to an overwhelming number of issues time and time again" and "he'd be happy tune tune the car on a 00+ PCM or Holley". I inquired on a HPT FB group and two others chimed in that they're scared of bricking them as well. "Some tuners may do them if they don't know what they are getting themselves into".
I'm not switching to a 0411 or an aftermarket PCM. Am I SOL in trying to optimize the spark tables?
I'm not switching to a 0411 or an aftermarket PCM. Am I SOL in trying to optimize the spark tables?
The reason tuners are probably more afraid nowadays is because of the scarcity of the PCM. It's a 1 year only model and it's become very difficult to source replacements.
Yes, they seem to have a reputation to Brick more easier than others.
However, my approach to Flashing them is to have a good battery charger on the battery and do not touch anything during the Flash process such as radio, window or open the door. Basically, if you sneeze during a Flash it may BRICK LOL.
Yes, they seem to have a reputation to Brick more easier than others.
However, my approach to Flashing them is to have a good battery charger on the battery and do not touch anything during the Flash process such as radio, window or open the door. Basically, if you sneeze during a Flash it may BRICK LOL.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,069
Likes: 74
From: Casselberry FL
I'd have to check my laptop files, but I bet I've written over 200 calibrations to my pcm without a problem. I just haven't seen it on my vehicle to validate the concern. I'm curious if it's truly more about limited tables on the 98 making tuning them more time consuming, and tuners blame bricking as the advertised reason for not touching them.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,869
Likes: 99
I was under the impression that a bricked pcm can be fixed with free source software and a good electronics tech who can resolder the necessary innards of the pcm.
This tech is just down the road a few miles from me (KS).
https://www.customecm.com/gm-bricked-pcm-recovery
or
https://ls1tech.com/forums/pcm-diagn...-location.html
IMO, some of us think we are too smart to read directions and wing it not paying attention to the pitfalls for failure mentioned in link above. Uploading an HP custom tune is good example. I reflashed my 98 PCM to an HP custom tune without a hitch rather than let my latest tuner do it who I have never seen read any instructions (his reply to me - "I've been tuning for 20 years and this is always the way I have done it."). So now I have a parked ProCharged 98 Z28 with a $200 Aeromotive FPR that was installed to manage fuel pressure with boost. Problem is - he left the IFR table sloped and didn't trust using my file from FIC for the injector data - he used his own data.
My point is there are shops who claim to be pro's who are NOT after you check their work.
FWIW - a tech bricked my 1998 PCM in 01 by trying to flash it on the bench. But back then there wasn't a very large knowledge base for the LS1 pcm and with LSEdit being the only game in town. So perhaps most of the 'bricked' stories are a decade or more old. They just didn't know any better.
To the OP - you might have to drive a bit to Boca Ratan. Call Dan Maslic at Masport Speedshop.
This tech is just down the road a few miles from me (KS).
https://www.customecm.com/gm-bricked-pcm-recovery
or
https://ls1tech.com/forums/pcm-diagn...-location.html
IMO, some of us think we are too smart to read directions and wing it not paying attention to the pitfalls for failure mentioned in link above. Uploading an HP custom tune is good example. I reflashed my 98 PCM to an HP custom tune without a hitch rather than let my latest tuner do it who I have never seen read any instructions (his reply to me - "I've been tuning for 20 years and this is always the way I have done it."). So now I have a parked ProCharged 98 Z28 with a $200 Aeromotive FPR that was installed to manage fuel pressure with boost. Problem is - he left the IFR table sloped and didn't trust using my file from FIC for the injector data - he used his own data.
My point is there are shops who claim to be pro's who are NOT after you check their work.
FWIW - a tech bricked my 1998 PCM in 01 by trying to flash it on the bench. But back then there wasn't a very large knowledge base for the LS1 pcm and with LSEdit being the only game in town. So perhaps most of the 'bricked' stories are a decade or more old. They just didn't know any better.
To the OP - you might have to drive a bit to Boca Ratan. Call Dan Maslic at Masport Speedshop.
I have tuned hundred and hundreds of 98's over the years, most of them were with efi live. I came across several bricked 98's over the years and all were from low voltage and using hpt back then. I was able to recovery everyone of them (not with hpt). I have tuned 50+ 98's with hpt and never had an issue. My personal opinion is they are just more voltage sensitive vs the 99+. is why they used to get bricked so much. Even the 99+ bricked pcm's I have came across I have recovered 99% of them so they were actually bricked.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,869
Likes: 99
I have tuned hundred and hundreds of 98's over the years, most of them were with efi live. I came across several bricked 98's over the years and all were from low voltage and using hpt back then. I was able to recovery everyone of them (not with hpt). I have tuned 50+ 98's with hpt and never had an issue. My personal opinion is they are just more voltage sensitive vs the 99+. is why they used to get bricked so much. Even the 99+ bricked pcm's I have came across I have recovered 99% of them so they were actually bricked.
To the OP - find another tuner. If the worst case scenario occurs and the tuner bricks it, the 98 pcm it can be brought back to life. It's 2022. Technology today isn't what it used to be 10 to fifteen years ago.
I suspect some tuners don't want to waste their time on the 98 pcm because of the limited number of tunes available for the 98 pcm compared to 411 and then use the excuse of the mostly bogus past history of the 98 being easily bricked. To save time they like to copy and paste rather than starting from scratch with the tune. One hour at $150 an hour adds up quickly as profit when instead they can start with a copy and paste tune and save an hour of time.
I'm a programmer. I have hundreds of thousands of lines of code stored in a respository that I source daily rather than retyping the code all over again. That said I don't charge or estimate time for work that I don't actually perform.
Last edited by dlandsvZ28; May 3, 2022 at 10:57 AM. Reason: edit content
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Verdad Gallardo Thanks for the vote of confidence for the 98 pcms. Was hoping that you would reply.
To the OP - find another tuner. If the worst case scenario occurs and the tuner bricks it, the 98 pcm it can be brought back to life. It's 2022. Technology today isn't what it used to be 10 to fifteen years ago.
I suspect some tuners don't want to waste their time on the 98 pcm because of the limited number of tunes available for the 98 pcm compared to 411 and then use the excuse of the mostly bogus past history of the 98 being easily bricked. To save time they like to copy and paste rather than starting from scratch with the tune. One hour at $150 an hour adds up quickly as profit when instead they can start with a copy and paste tune and save an hour of time.
I'm a programmer. I have hundreds of thousands of lines of code stored in a respository that I source daily rather than retyping the code all over again. That said I don't charge or estimate time for work that I don't actually perform.
To the OP - find another tuner. If the worst case scenario occurs and the tuner bricks it, the 98 pcm it can be brought back to life. It's 2022. Technology today isn't what it used to be 10 to fifteen years ago.
I suspect some tuners don't want to waste their time on the 98 pcm because of the limited number of tunes available for the 98 pcm compared to 411 and then use the excuse of the mostly bogus past history of the 98 being easily bricked. To save time they like to copy and paste rather than starting from scratch with the tune. One hour at $150 an hour adds up quickly as profit when instead they can start with a copy and paste tune and save an hour of time.
I'm a programmer. I have hundreds of thousands of lines of code stored in a respository that I source daily rather than retyping the code all over again. That said I don't charge or estimate time for work that I don't actually perform.