I’ve always thought dyno tune right away to seat the rings. I’ve been told different by a couple shops this week. To drive it around first for a little bit.

If I have a base tune put into the PCM that’s not too lean or too rich, should I drive it for 200 miles with Driven break-in oil in it, then put normal synthetic oil in it, then get a dyno tune? Anything bad about that?

It’s a fully forged 390ci at 10.2:1 compression. Medium cam.

 

Wow, where did you get such false information? FB? Yes, the rings have to be seated before you go full throttle and this is one reason for the break-in period. Typical suggestion is low to mid throttle driving at varying RPMs, typically below 4500 RPM. Many performance cars now come with a special break-in tune which limits their performance and RPM until the break-in is completed. After e.g. 1200 miles, you go back to the dealer and they enable the full power tune. Every new car I ever bought strongly suggested a break-in period.

Fortunately the shops are giving you correct advice. New cars come from the factory with break-in oil; I don't know which ones might be good for a new build. I would suggest driving more like 1000 miles before going full throttle during a dyno tune. Better might be getting a safe tune sooner and after breadk-in let the dyno shop maximize the tune.

 

FB....LOL
No, I see engine builders like Steve Morris, Nelson racing Engines, and many others building a new engine whether a 1500 HP TT set up or a 600 HP N/A LS engine. They put it on the dyno and do WOT runs. i'm assuming they didn;t let it run on the dyno for 1,000 miles with someone varying the throttle for days and days.....right?

The shop installing my engine already had his tuner come by to put a base tune in it, they drove it on the street for a short time to do it. He said to drive it at least 500 miles, preferably 1,000 miles......before running it hard. Its got the high Zinc Driven break in oil in it. I'll change that after 100 miles. Then again at 250, then 500. Then normal synthetic oil from there forward.

I'm sold....after you adding your comment also........I wont go WOT till 1,000 miles. Then I'll do a full dyno tune.



So, a brand new Vette. Almost all of the people buying Vettes are going WOT right out of the showroom. Aren't those brand new engines all run on an engine dyno before install?

 

New Corvettes, especially Z06, have very detailed break-in directions:
https://gmauthority.com/blog/2023/01...plained-video/
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...questions.html

Glad that your tuners and shops are giving good advice.

 

Engine break is a very controversial topic IMO. Ask 5 engine builds get 6 different answers, lol. I tune for multiple engine builders and the ones I tune for happen to all follow the same procedure. Brand new engine, LS, big block, small block, full billet race engine, etc all the same. We put it on the engine dyno, fire up and get it up to temp and run it part throttle a little while warming it up and dialing in the fueling quick as possible. Then shut off check fluids then fire back up and do a partial WOT pull and check tune. Make tune adjustments and go higher in RPM maybe one or two pulls. Then go WOT to redline. Im not saying one method is better than another, thats just what we see and do with multiple engine builders.

 

My former boss took delivery of a C8 last summer. Per him they are programmed not to go full throttle until after 500 miles. Not sure if it's to protect the C8 or the driver. LOL.
On my LS swaps with new engines the harness/ECM supplier puts in a base tune per the engine/trans/rear gears specs I supplied. I drive them a bit to get a feel for the shift points (4L60E) but no full throttle stuff. Then off to the tuner. The other things to consider are rear end gears/converter break in and brake pad bedding. It all depends on the level of your build

 

SO many recipes!

I am breaking in a fresh rebuilt 911 engine (All on road with data logging), at 4500 miles its still tightening up and getting better.
We started tuning at 1500 miles, the rebuild was only bumping me from 3.6 to 3.8 with JE rings and pistons and fresh Nicasil bores which to be fair are harder to
break in than iron or steel, the built is within the tolerances of the ecu to run it, it's also still on stock cams. I am data logging the engine a lot during break-in and it's pretty obvious it is gaining power and running cleaner each oil change, Started on Driven DT40, and then at 300/Breakin oil(DT40), 1000/Breakin oil(DT40), 1500/Regular Oil, 2500/Regular Oil, 3500/Liquimoly .

Just a comparative to another high perf motor.. The builder developed the order on the dyno with a test engine.

Cheers

 

Thats what every engine builder I've ever talked to, read about or heard of, or the hundreds of videos on Youtube watching them bump the key for the first time and do a bunch of dyno pulls ending up with WOT runs, has done.

The shop putting my engine in said something that makes sense though....Im using Driven break-in oil with high zinc so the oil isnt washed/scrubbed off the new metal parts (brearings most important) for max protection during break-in AND to better carry away the high amounts of metal shavings that all new engine shed in the beginning. He said why run it hard with "KNOWN" metal shavings in the oil. Why not run it for 500-1000 miles changng the oil several times and let that heavy metal shedding period be over with. Driving it with varying rom's and going 80% throttle a bunch, but not for long periods at 80%, just up and right back down with the rpm's, then put in a new batch of regular detergent oil and dyno tune it with hard pulls.

 

First video says they put each engine on the dyno for the Z06 C8 and go WOT...."full load and full speed."

the shop called today after starting it and it appears I have a few bad fuel injectors, which are 15+ years old. Checked all the wiring for proper electrical activity. They ordered new FIC 60# injectors and they'll be here on Monday. The tuner said he'll come back and put a safe tune in it driving it on the street so I can safely drive it for 750 miles (my choice to go 750) varying it from idle to 4500-5000 rom max the entire time. Then I'll put in regular oil at the tuners shop and hit it hard on the dyno tuning.

I'm most concerned with seating the rings, secondly protecting the brand new bearings until that heavy metal shaving period decreases way down and like the video says, wear in evenly and properly.

That should do me good.

 

Just to throw a bit of a wrench into the discussion of what OEMs do for break in, it is not just about the engine. The ideal way to break in an engine, transmission, and rear gears are all different, but they have to come up with some procedure for all 3 at once. Definitely compromises being made.

 

That video that "mrvedit" posted was pretty informative, especially about the bearings. They shed that thin soft surface in an effort to knock down the high points to have a very smooth over-all surface......and doing it by running it less than WOT for a period of time. I buy that. Can't hurt.

Again, I think everyone agrees that the rings are TOP TOP priority to seat them properly in the first few miles. I guess that's why GM puts every engine on a dyno and does a full load, full speed pull.

 

Obviously metallurgy and engine manufacturing has improved over the years and therefore requires less break-in than a long time ago.
However, I think its also generational. Older generations were more patient and I think took better care of their cars. Younger generations seem less patient, want everything "now", and don't take care of their cars. Plus many cars are leased and they therefore don't care about how long the engine will last. Also, IMHO the shops on YouTube which build super high performance engines know they aren't going to last 100,000+ miles, so why bother breaking them in. 1500HP? Lucky if that lasts a month.

 

GM pours oil into an unfired engine on the assembly line. The only engines getting ran-in are the hand built engines and the new Z06 5.5. All are corvette engines. The other millions and millions of engines get their first start on the assembly line. No oil pre-lube, no break-in process. Break-in is up to the consumer. Crate engines are the same.

 

Which, if you think about it, proves two things. 1) Every customer that drives away from the dealership in their un-broken-in engine, does perfect driving to seat rings. Which is varying rpms all the time, normal daily driving.

2) Those 10's of thousands of people, maybe 100's of thousands who take their brand new car with less than 50 miles on it and goes WOT also means nothing, its perfectly ok to do that. The manufacturers of engines know lots and lots of people will absolutely be going WOT within 50 miles being on the odometer. If it was a bad thing manufacturers would be on the hook for 100's of millions of $$$ in warranty claims and repairs. That doesn't happen, so going WOT with brand new engines must be perfectly fine.

I'm choosing to not go WOT for a little while, but I will get up there in rpm for very short bursts, to focus on seating the rings properly in the first 10 miles of driving. I'll play it by ear when to go WOT. Probably after the dirty break-in oil is out and sythetic oil is in. So maybe at 500 miles.

 

Facebook, pfft, NO! YouTube. LMAO

You're not breaking in a new engine you're breaking in a remachined, rebuilt engine, it's a little different.

Miles? What about rpm? If you shoot for 1500 miles I guess you'll be broken more if you have 4.56's and a 5500 stall speed compared to the guy with 3.23's and a stock converter.

Personally I'd rather get the "metal shedding" over with quicker.

If an iron bore is finished honed properly ring break in doesn't take that long. Done properly less than 30 minutes.
And for the sake of argument a Nikasil bore takes longer but doesn't shed much of anything, if the rings shed then why doesn't the gap open up?

What exactly do you think is putting out so much metal it's going to self destruct if you run it fast too early?

Just my opinion it's more a matter of preventing major damage on something brand new if there was a manufacturing defect or assembly error.

If you want to argue my point tell me how you're going to log compression at each stage in this break in, tell me about how you've torn engines down before and noted the (horrible) amount of changes in the wearing components at each mileage interval.
Oh wait, no one does that. So does anyone Really know whats going on during break in? I'm thinking no, just do what the youtube video says.

And again, if you want to argue my point show me a failure directly related to "running too hard" before break in was complete.

Is it a generational thing? Maybe, but not what was stated earlier. When I was younger I didn't care how many times I had to tear something apart. Now that I'm older it hurts and I don't want to do it so I'll prevent it as much as possible. Also in my younger years experience I've seen three or four + lobes wear off a flat tappet cam during all new engine break in--- thats a hell of a lot more metal shedding than your engine is going to see. And have torn entire engines down on these failures only to find no other damage. This was before oil filters had built in bypasses or the bypass was built into the adapter, or in the case of the LS engines the block or oil pan. (and in case you're wondering this was back around 2000-2002 when there was a lifter shortage, right before people started recommending using Diesel oils for break in. Before there were zinc additives you put in separately)

And that brings up another interest. Are you running an oil filter bypass on this? You shouldn't be. Why would you want all that shedded metal bypassing the filter. I have a feeling you have no idea. Have to ask the builder.

 

Why laugh at Youtube, the best engine builders on planet earth have tons of videos on their from Gail Banks to Steve Morris to Borowski to MotoIQ.............its got more quality info than any one person on planet earth, or any 50 people on planet earth.

I think we've established there's a difference between breaking in the "engine as a whole" and breaking in just the "RINGS". Doing the rings properly is 1,000 times more important than anything you do with the entire engine as a whole.

Sheddiing....according to those engineers at GM talking about the new C8 LT6 engine, all of the bearings shed a layer of 'stuff". And shedding comes from all over the engine, not just the extremely small amount that comes off the rings.

My first LS stroker engine had metal shavings on the oil drain plug for like 30,000 miles of driving. It lasted 143,000. it was a 600 flywheel HP engine back in 2002 from Agostino Racing Engines. So shedding CANNOT be over with "FAST. Engines shed metal for years.

Its probably pretty hard to find someone who ruined an engine during break in running it hard.....because it doesn't matter if you run it hard or run it soft. OH WAIT.......my friend gas washed the rings on a brand new Katech 427ci many years ago. After 500 mies it had to be rebuilt......re-honed and re-ringed. Now yes, thats a tuner issue, but there's one for you.

This whole break in thing can be done any way anyone wants to do it.....BUT....the rings....you better seat them quickly. And your 30 minutes is way too long, that could equate to 30-50 miles....too much. You have to seat them in the first 5-10 miles according to most experts. Thats 5-7 minutes.

 

I said done properly less than 30 minutes. Gas washing the rings is not "properly"

5 to 7 minutes is less than 30 the last time I checked.

And you're not breaking in a C8 engine. The bearing technology and the crank journal surfacing thats in your engine has been around since the 70's.

Can't help but wonder why the guy who built your engine can't recommend the break in procedure. Any ideas?

 

Breaking an engine in really isn't difficult.

How do you plan on monitoring the metal shedding? You're not, you're just going to go off recommendations of every engine make and build in existence, not whats actually going on in yours.

What do you think is shedding metal heavily?

Rings are gapped and bearing clearances are set to stay where they are when assembled (the ring gaps do open up slightly)
Where is this heavy metal shedding coming from? Got a link to the youtube video that put that in your head?

 

Because I built my entire engine from bare block to ready to install, with him teaching me every step of the way.

BUT....his recommedation is to drive it around with a safe street tune for 500 miles, going as much as 80-85% of red line for quick throttle hits and then off the throttle, never maintaining one rpm for too long. Then change to new regular oil and dyno tune it hard.

Since my engine has the same bearings, rings and parts any of the best builders put into their LS engines (Clevite, Callies, Diamond, ARP 2000's, blah, blah, blah....... and seeing them put it on the dyno with zero miles on it.....and wack the **** out of it and tune it.......I thought I'd ask this question about break in to get other opinions.

 

Break-in oil change at 50 miles, 250, 500. I'll check it 3 times.

No. Just me with my first stroker engine from Agostino in 2002. The engine that had tons of metal shavings all over the oil drain plug every oil change. And still had a little bit around 30,000 miles. After that I don't reember ever seeing any again. That badass engine from 2002 that put down 500 RWHP/500 RWTQ and lasted 13 years had a lot of shedding. So shedding is perfectly fine and happens to every new engine.

What parts shed.....how am I supposed to know....I'm not a engine designer or builder....LOL