Big Geek

iTrader: (2)

I am VERY interested in knowing the intricacies of the two as I am trying to figure out which would provide the best results. Having tuned several FAST units for Mustangs and a couple of Buicks I am looking to buy the better of the two. The only real thing that I have heard about either thus far is that the "LS-1 Edit" software can zap the PCM if power is lost or if the flash is interupted. Any truth to this? Also, what is the going rate for each? How many VIN numbers do you get with each? How much is it to add a VIN to your existing software? How does each company provide updates and how much are they (ballpark)? I am wondering if I shouldn't just get a "Predator" as I am not sure that I will be changing cams. I do know that auto engineers tend to put a good bit of leeway into the PCM in the sense that one can clean up the tune a bit and as such would it behove me to let someone with more experience with the LS-1 PCM's to send me a tune (Such as the "Predator".) or get either the LS-1 Edit or HP Tuner? Thanks in advance to any and all advice and opinions. Cheers !!!

Jim C.

horist

V 1.3 or earlier can ZAP the PCM (ls1 edit) ... I heard the newer versions try to copy HP Tuners safe method

HPT is 499.00
LS1 Edit is 550 minus a rebate

HPT it's year/model locked... you buy it for a 2000 F-Body and you can tune as many 2000 F-Body PCMs as you want...
LS1 Edit is PCM locked... you buy 1 license... it will work on 1 PCM that's it...

LS1 Edit is 250 for another license/vin (up to 4) ...

HP Tuners isn't vin locked... only year/model ...

HP Tuners provides updates automatically ... you download from the website ... I think standard is 6 months... 100/year to renew

LS1 Edit emails the updates ... 6 month standard agrement... same to renew for a year ... from my experience HPT is faster

Predator is great if you want limited tunablity... but if you want the full abilityt o tune... HP Tuners is the way to go

horist

also just so everyone knows... Team ZR1 is superior because he's a corvette owner... so he must be right ... he is a corvette owner after all ... so anything that contradicts what he thinks is wrong since he's a corvette owner ... (I have nothing against corvettes... my next sports car will be a vette ... just commenting on his own post on that other forum)

HumpinSS

iTrader: (1)

I have both products and have lost 2 PCM's using edit. After the 2nd 200.00 charge to get my car up and running i said to hell with that. So yes I do have both products and I am capable of making an unbiased opinion OR I WOULD STILL BE USING Edit. I asked questions on the site and their site to BETTER MY KNOWLEDGE OF THE PCM. What is wrong with information? Information is information no matter what software package you are using.. As usual you come in here with your banter to bash software products and make asinine comments about your experience, what you have seen and what you believe is the case. Do you honestly thing edit is bug free. For christ sakes they JUST TRIED TO ADD A SCANNER that is bug ridden. Who give a flying **** about windows not opening in the MAXIMIZed position that can be changed easily or for a person that is lazy what is one more click. A PCM read of edit take 30+ minutes a write takes 2minutes compared to 2 minutes for a read and 27 seconds for a write where it is VIRTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO KILL THE PCM. I have only tuned my car via two forums this forum and the HPtuners forum. I ask questions about tables so I can better dial in my car. If you think the ve isn’t responsible for fueling you are sadly informed need to step away from tuning period.

If you are gonna make claims that their product suck and the owners are running their site in such ways PROVIDE US WITH evidence. Proof cant be argued with. If they are deleting posts tell us EXACTLY which posts have gotten removed? I am pretty sure they aren’t censoring their forum such as Edit is and I can back that up. I sent the edit mailing list a question about PCM recovery and the tech 2 at the dealer. Guess what the **** never got posted... Wanna know why??? If you are having problems with Tuners and trust me you seem to be the only one, show us what you are having problems with.

Edit and Tuners achieve the same goals when the day is over and done with. What got me to abandon Edit for Tuners was

1. Support
2. IMO no moderation of what is posted
3. Fast turn around times
4. No vin/pcm locks
5. Tuning capabilities for the model year
6. Fast read and WRITE time
7. Better interface
8. Scanner the comes integrated with software

With just those 8 reasons listed it was and is a better choice and guess where i spent my money. HPTuners doesn’t owe me **** and neither does Edit. I come here to talk about my experience using their package and the competitions. One is better than the other. That is it. Carputing has had 7 yrs to improve their interface and make revisions to keep the market cornered. They have done neither. 5 updates in 7 yrs? What kinda support is that not to mention it took them 7yrs to add a half *** scanner. To me edit is overpriced for what it does. Flash a PCM and call it a day. You still have to buy EFILive or Ease if you wanted scanning capabilities this leaves you with a 1000 deficit in your pocket (500 for edit 3-400 for live). For 500.00 Tuners has offered ALL of this in one package. Efilive will be offering this AL in one package. Is it my fault after carputing took my money they refuse to add the bare essentials to keep customer base. No they have made a killing for several years now. It is time someone stepped up to the plate to give the community MORE OPTIONS so people aren’t forced into buying half *** archaic programs.


How bout you inform the forum members with factual information as to what is wrong with HPTuners and I am pretty sure I (and a few others) can provide you with FACTUAL information as to what is wrong with edit. Factual being the key word here. No arguing just list out the issues you believe you have with the software.

Oh and I don’t care how you look at it 14.6258/1.13=12.96. I have an FJO WB hooked up to my car and can verify this all day long. So if you think the PE numbers aren’t what they are I am here to tell you that I know what I see with my two eyes and it is what it is.


For a person that criticizes everything how come you haven’t build your own scanning and tuning package…..

MNR-0

Perhaps the decider for me to go with HPT was the quick flash times. Recently I flashed my car up to 6 times at one track meet. Using LS1Edit I have observed people pull the PCM, find a power point, reflash and load it back in. Up to 1 hour is lost and that is precious track time wasted.

Their scanner gives me access to over 100 PIDs and has been an admirable performer.

LS1Edit takes longer to reflash because it does checksums on every data value written to flash memory. While this is a good safety feature unfortunately there is too much noise in the OBDII line to guarantee a 1st flash success every time with LS1Edit.

Ive done it to my car and watched for over 1 hour for just one flash to apply successfully. I was biting my nails fearing the VCM could be rendered useless every time it failed and restarted. That, my friends, is something you only ever do once.

Sure, both products work. But for the home hack who values reliability and speed above all else, HPT fits the bill.

Its also a fool who thinks they can post such a libelling remark and not expect a similar repsonse. I also believe ZR-1 shouldnt be blasted like he is or we are no better than the drivel it contains.

Another_User

Must...put...Team ZR-1...on my ignore list...

kick_*ss

iTrader: (1)

Quick Question:
1. Has HPT latest rev lost a PCM?
2. Has Ls1edit 1.5 lost a PCM?
3. What happens using HPT if power is lost, or flash interrupted? I do know what happens with Edit ( older revs, and I sure as hell aint going to repro that one on my pcm ), dont know about the new one.
4. anyone see hpt or edit appear to not flash a new tune?
5. BUGs like I said in my earlier post, your smoking some really bad crack if you ever think you will write bug free code.

I know I have seen weird stuff like a ls1edit flash appear to not take. Why I don't know. Just look in this forum for my question about this after I went to the dyno the other day. Was it EDIT? Dunno but the same flash 2 times yielded 2 results.

It's interesting to see ls1edit get bashed about their forum and software. So its not pretty, big freaking whoopy.

All I care about for a tuning software:
1. IT WORKS
2. Support on the software. NOT HOW TO TUNE my car, but support on the software itself. Hate to tell you guys there is NO SOFTWARE out there that has a help file the tells you. PUT X into this spot and all is good. Thats why ALL real software has training courses to teach you how to use it.

From what I see, HPT is new and everyone loves it because its different. LS1edit has been around for a very long time and therefor has a long list of gripes. Everyone just crawling out of the wood to launch every little thing ever seen happen with ls1edit. Give HPT a few year on the market and see if they dont have a list of complaints.

If HPT is the next great tool, it will dominate and end of subject. From what I see EFILive which already has a very good scanner and kick *** support will be giving all of the others a run for their money when their tuner comes out. ( my opinion ). And besides its an aussie product and so is my goat, its has to work better on goats

A NOTE TO ALL THE SCANNER and TUNER in one makers.

Make something that will log what is needed, take that info and make recommendations as to what needs changed in a tune.

EX
Software reads in TUNE(x) file.
Goto the Dyno or Track and log whatever is needed
Software reviews that tune, reviews the logged data as to what should be changed and highlights those areas.

So if its running lean, make changes needed, if blah blah, make changes.

And then have a ( YES or NO ) to accept SMART-TUNE changes.

SMART-TUNE is mine, I coined it.

HumpinSS

iTrader: (1)

To date no
Cant comment 1.4 cooked two of my PCMs

You reflash the file and go about your business. I have tried it and so have many others
No
I am pretyy sure they both have bugs but HPT is a lot faster about fixing the issues that may come up in their software. Check out their Bugs forum and the turn around time on answers

Amongst other things

1. Both packages work
2. HPTuners support is way better. Have you looked at the Tuners help manual?
Different yes more features yes. Not having to worry about abattery going dead on a flash and losing the PCM is enough for me

Competition is always good it keeps manufacturers on their toes. Edit lacked that competition for the last 7 yrs and we (the Consumer) had to deal with it because of a lack of options


An optimize button

Big Geek

iTrader: (2)

Along the lines of what "kick_*ss" wrote I too am wondering if any of the current manufacturers or PCM tuning software are planning some type of data capture as a standard feature in their product; and if so do they plan to use some type of fuzzy logic to help the home tuner find a closer tune using some type of suggested changes made by both entering certain vairables such as temp, elevation; etc. as well as data captured from the PCM tables and a wide band O2. Is this possible? If so I would think that is would make the producer of such software a viable alternative to those wanting to really tune on both a totally stock car or a high HP track car. Any thoughts? Anyone in the know about the future of the LS-1 tuner software producers? Thanks again. Cheers !!!

Jim C.

P.S.- Sorry for all of the seemingly trivial questions but my mind is always wondering and I am trying to learn as much as possible as I am new to the LS-1 program. Thanks again.

kick_*ss

iTrader: (1)

To be honest, YES.

I know all the engines are different, and all the tunes have to be tweeked. But if you add a new mod that leans out or richens up a tune, changes everything drastically ( s/c, turbo, cam, heads ) its all mathematics, there must be a static formula that can be used if the proper info data is put in.

I would not mind reading the HPT help file, but unless they are giving a "competators upgrade" pricing I am not jumping. I have a SS and GTO and no way I am putting out $899. I already have about that now in edit and efi for the 2 cars.
This is great if I am a shop and it would make a huge difference, but to someone doing everything on their own its just not logical to jump no matter how much nice or easier it is.

In short, make it worth my while to jump and I will consider it. To just abondon something I already own is stupid if they both work.

BTW: cool feature if the power cuts out it doesn't toast the PCM.
Faster flashes, not sure about this since I would rather have each packet checksummed. Just me. Faster is not always better. ( just ask our wives and girlfriends )

HumpinSS

iTrader: (1)

The faster flashes i due to different programming techniques. Edit reads the boot loader and os. In essence the whole PCM this is why if the power dies you can toast your PCM during i write. Tuners on the other other hand reads and stores operating system version and pertinent information but ONLY writes what is needed (calibration tables eg ve table, maf, IFR etc). This is why it takes less time for a flash.... FWIW

kick_*ss

iTrader: (1)

That makes sense. Always wondered why edit did the whole pcm every time when I changed just one number in one table or field.

quick curt

hey guys I would like to put my 2 cents in.The real problem here with both softwares is they arent able to correct the tune of tables to the parameters G.M. used to efficiently meet a number of criteria.The real future of this tuner technology is to develop software that can troubleshoot parameters and correct them to known constants in tuning.without the tuner doing more than pressing a load button .The real tuner bug is not knowing the constants that G.M. used during development of the O.B.D. 2 as well as the Original flash that G.M. uses ,with either H.P. or LS1 edit that is all that one can do with either software.IS EDIT!

Another_User

1) Yes...I would love to get my hands on all of GMs info on how they tuned their stuff.
2) You missed the point. HP Tuners is better.

slow

iTrader: (7)

I would be happy to get my hands on 1 switch for adaptive learning.

Ryan

gameover

just to clarify the flashing process and the reason we have safe and fast flashing...

1. our hardware/software combo is optimised
2. we read and write exactly the same data segements that our competitors do
3. we do checksum every packet as it is sent/received
4. we also checksum the entire PCM after the write before reset, a double check
5. we do not allow PCMs to have invalid checksums
6. we do not bypass checksum tests
7. we allow recovery from power, PC, cable, dog ate my PCM failures etc. (calibration write only).

We make no secret that all software has bugs, we are very open to scruitiny and personally, i wouldn't have it any other way.

What i can give is our commitment that no customer is ever ignored, no question is ever regarded as stupid and we will continue to innovate, grow and improve our software based on our idea's and customer feedback.

BTW, i am an Aussie too

- and i also drive a Monaro

Chris...

HumpinSS

iTrader: (1)

All done in a mere 27 seconds. Rock on

ssorange

Anyone know when the EFILive is coming out? I am trying to decide between it and HPTuner.

I love HPT's costumer support! I have asked 1000 questions and they have answered them all w/o any attitude. I have not had that experience with the LS1edit guys.

Also, if EFILive does get released soon, having been a software developer in my past life, I know that version 1.0 of any product, even if it is based on an older existing one, is never really 1.0. Its more like beta 0.9. So I am alittle afraid of a new software package. What do you guys think???

jimmyblue

iTrader: (11)

It's hard to say. I like the EFILive logger quality, but
there's no useful info to be had out of them on the
progress or estimated completion or price. If HPTuners
does start shipping their analog logging cable and v1.5
before EFILive FlashScan hits the street with their
v1.0 (EFILive7.0) that is going to be a serious smack-
down, in my opinion. And I'm pretty sure both parties
know it.

HumpinSS

iTrader: (1)

dun dun dun dun