mega squirt write up, long with lots of pic's. no more maf limit for me and cheap!!
12-02-2004, 09:19 AM
#21
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Originally Posted by Rick@Synergy
Sorry Jim, one more question. Can I use this on a Mustang also? I dont want to buy a **** load of expensive software to do this customers car. ITs a blower app also. So would it work?
Rick
Rick
Rick, it's running on several TFI distributor mustangs right now. MOdular motor cars (4.6, 5.4) have what's called an "EDIS Wheel" on the crank pulley, the regular PCMs crank position sensor. Megasquirt can control an EDIS system with software only! (as in, it's BUILT for the mod motors, though strangely I can't find anyone running them on one yet)... there are plenty of 5.0s with it already, no news there.
I'm not in this to make a ton of $$$ (I have a decent job already), but it's a hobby that Jim can tell you, I am really into... Although, check into building one yourself, they're not that tough. It's just that there is a LOT of reading and the data is not as organized as it could be for the complete noob. But the units are reliable, easy to test and fix, super-easy to tune - the most important thing you have to figure out is how to get a good clean tachometer signal.
EDIT - just was pointed out the "rules" so I don't want to step on any toes, I'm not an advertiser here etc. so, um, yup! I'm not supposed to solicit PMs, but again if you have any questions I watch this board a lot!!!
-scott
Last edited by dieselgeek; 12-02-2004 at 09:32 AM.
12-02-2004, 10:36 AM
#22
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Originally Posted by dieselgeek
Rick, it's running on several TFI distributor mustangs right now. MOdular motor cars (4.6, 5.4) have what's called an "EDIS Wheel" on the crank pulley, the regular PCMs crank position sensor. Megasquirt can control an EDIS system with software only! (as in, it's BUILT for the mod motors, though strangely I can't find anyone running them on one yet)... there are plenty of 5.0s with it already, no news there.
I'm not in this to make a ton of $$$ (I have a decent job already), but it's a hobby that Jim can tell you, I am really into... Although, check into building one yourself, they're not that tough. It's just that there is a LOT of reading and the data is not as organized as it could be for the complete noob. But the units are reliable, easy to test and fix, super-easy to tune - the most important thing you have to figure out is how to get a good clean tachometer signal.
EDIT - just was pointed out the "rules" so I don't want to step on any toes, I'm not an advertiser here etc. so, um, yup! I'm not supposed to solicit PMs, but again if you have any questions I watch this board a lot!!!
-scott
I'm not in this to make a ton of $$$ (I have a decent job already), but it's a hobby that Jim can tell you, I am really into... Although, check into building one yourself, they're not that tough. It's just that there is a LOT of reading and the data is not as organized as it could be for the complete noob. But the units are reliable, easy to test and fix, super-easy to tune - the most important thing you have to figure out is how to get a good clean tachometer signal.
EDIT - just was pointed out the "rules" so I don't want to step on any toes, I'm not an advertiser here etc. so, um, yup! I'm not supposed to solicit PMs, but again if you have any questions I watch this board a lot!!!
-scott
Rick
12-02-2004, 10:37 AM
#23
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Originally Posted by parish8
my stock pcm is doing everything it did before except fuel, i cliped the ground wire from each injector and other than that the stock pcm doesn't know anything. i am geting a injector circuit code but it is just a light.
i still have the mass air hooked up and on the truck that includes the stock IAT sensor. i am not sure what will happen when i unhook that but i dont plan on leaving it inthere forever. the stock pcm looks at load for line presures and timing. i am not sure if it will switch over to some kind of back up load calculaton if i unhook the maf. i will let you know on this one later too.
the mega should work on any car, the more odd the car the better it would be for one since there are likely no aftermarket solutions out there. once again if you try and keep the stock pcm to run some things there may be conflicts you have to figure out.
i still have the mass air hooked up and on the truck that includes the stock IAT sensor. i am not sure what will happen when i unhook that but i dont plan on leaving it inthere forever. the stock pcm looks at load for line presures and timing. i am not sure if it will switch over to some kind of back up load calculaton if i unhook the maf. i will let you know on this one later too.
the mega should work on any car, the more odd the car the better it would be for one since there are likely no aftermarket solutions out there. once again if you try and keep the stock pcm to run some things there may be conflicts you have to figure out.
Rick
12-02-2004, 10:45 AM
#24
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I seriously doubt the ecm goes away completely. I think the bonus with the mustang is that it has the EDIS so spark control will be a snap. Where as with the LS1 we will have to rig something up for spark control
12-02-2004, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Blackbird
I seriously doubt the ecm goes away completely. I think the bonus with the mustang is that it has the EDIS so spark control will be a snap. Where as with the LS1 we will have to rig something up for spark control
It depends, on the mustang (me and Jim are doing one in town in a few weeks, a 4.6 with a turbo kit) eliminating the factory PCM wil be easy - it's a manual trans car, and has the EDIS wheel already, we'd be stupid NOT to eliminate the factory PCM.
But I am new to LS1s (got an LT1 M6 camaro though!), and with an auto trans especially - and definitely with the throttle-by-wire - keeping the stock PCM makes things a lot easier. Stock PCM still controls idle with the throttle, and if it had an IAC would do the same. That's kinda nice, although Megasquirt does support PWM IAC motors now.
The megasquirt add-on that controls 4l60 and 4L80 trannies is in testing and apparently works well, it controls line pressure, shift points, TC lockup, etc. I'd like to try one in the next month or two once they have it released for the public.
But spark control on the LS1 would NOT be tough. We are looking into it for Jim right now. You have to get the motor to TDC #1 (without timing marks, how the HELL do you do this simply???). Then you mount the 36-1 trigger wheel (EDIS) to the crank pulley (machine shops can do this for cheap, most guys spend ~$50 to have this done).
However, if any of you are into assembly coding on the MOtorola processors, you could write a software solution that can decode the factory crank position sensor's timing information. The damn NEON guys did this already, so if you want to run a four cylinder Chrysler motor, they got you covered... LOL. This would be the easiest solution to timing control, but for the interim we're pursuing the EDIS option. This is the EXACT same "EDIS" module they use for other aftermarket PCMs to run separate coil packs on non-distributor motors like the LS1...
12-02-2004, 10:59 AM
#26
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Ok, so since the Mustang we have is a stick, then I should do what with the PCM? I am only asking because you are saying I will be able to control everything with the Mega now? So having any kind of software to do the PCM is not needed anymore?
Rick
Rick
12-02-2004, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Rick@Synergy
Ok, so since the Mustang we have is a stick, then I should do what with the PCM? I am only asking because you are saying I will be able to control everything with the Mega now? So having any kind of software to do the PCM is not needed anymore?
Rick
Rick
It doesn't hurt to leave the factory PCM either, though. but you will NOT need any EEC-V tuning software, anything important will be handled in the megasquirt...
-scott
12-02-2004, 12:20 PM
#28
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oh wow shows what I know 
I figured there would be way too many other paramters the factory EEC would be controlling that this box would not bother with. Things like smog and such.
Very cool.
I figured there would be way too many other paramters the factory EEC would be controlling that this box would not bother with. Things like smog and such.
Very cool.
12-02-2004, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Blackbird
oh wow shows what I know
I figured there would be way too many other paramters the factory EEC would be controlling that this box would not bother with. Things like smog and such.
Very cool.
I figured there would be way too many other paramters the factory EEC would be controlling that this box would not bother with. Things like smog and such.
Very cool.
There are guys controlling purge and EGR with it, you can use the extra outputs and toggle them using any one of the inputs/outputs on the megasquirt. I.e., set up output X4 to come on at a certain MAP or RPM or TPS, etc. So you can do smog control if you want.
I was surprised on the EEC-IV, all these clowns told us that we'd lose the factory gauges, etc. Not a single gauge was controlled by the EEC-IV. On the EEC-V, perhaps the tach is receiving a signal from the PCM, however, duplicating that probably won't be too difficult...
Why are we talking about Fords on LS1tech, anyways??? j/k
-scott
12-02-2004, 01:09 PM
#30
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Originally Posted by dieselgeek
We live in Nebraska. What the heck is smog?!?
There are guys controlling purge and EGR with it, you can use the extra outputs and toggle them using any one of the inputs/outputs on the megasquirt. I.e., set up output X4 to come on at a certain MAP or RPM or TPS, etc. So you can do smog control if you want.
I was surprised on the EEC-IV, all these clowns told us that we'd lose the factory gauges, etc. Not a single gauge was controlled by the EEC-IV. On the EEC-V, perhaps the tach is receiving a signal from the PCM, however, duplicating that probably won't be too difficult...
Why are we talking about Fords on LS1tech, anyways??? j/k
-scott
There are guys controlling purge and EGR with it, you can use the extra outputs and toggle them using any one of the inputs/outputs on the megasquirt. I.e., set up output X4 to come on at a certain MAP or RPM or TPS, etc. So you can do smog control if you want.
I was surprised on the EEC-IV, all these clowns told us that we'd lose the factory gauges, etc. Not a single gauge was controlled by the EEC-IV. On the EEC-V, perhaps the tach is receiving a signal from the PCM, however, duplicating that probably won't be too difficult...
Why are we talking about Fords on LS1tech, anyways??? j/k
-scott
12-02-2004, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Pro Stock John
Interesting thread, I would just make the obvious warning that messing up the programning could hurt stuff, newbs proceed with caution.
Yup!! no different than a FAST, DFI, or AEM can mess up your motor. Tune at your own risk.
12-02-2004, 07:31 PM
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So, could you describe the process needed to run different boost levels in a turbo application??
Do you just tune on the fly when you crank up the boost for the track, or can you store a preset program in the module/software? Or does this adjust like the FAST system...I know you can change the boost on that system and not have to retune each and every time.
But all in all, sounds like a nice alternative to the systems of late.
Do you just tune on the fly when you crank up the boost for the track, or can you store a preset program in the module/software? Or does this adjust like the FAST system...I know you can change the boost on that system and not have to retune each and every time.
But all in all, sounds like a nice alternative to the systems of late.
12-02-2004, 07:41 PM
#35
i have never seen a fast or any of the other set up's. what we did was start by just putting around and tune for that. then ease into the throttle and tune for that, then more throttle, then more, and prety soon you are at wot but on a low boost setting. the entire process took less than one hour for the 2 of us to do and we are noob's.
what you are doing when i say tune is adjusting the ve table. the 2 axis on the ve table are rpm and boost. we are tuned all the way up to 11psi and 6000rpm right now. we can turn it down and are still tuned but if we turn it up we will want to keep an eye on things. the ve table goes up to 22psi, i just filled in the table from 11psi up to 22psi with the save ve numbers we had at 11psi. i am not sure if the ve will just keep going up with more boost or if some point it will drop off.
once you have the ve table set for a high boost set up you can then turn it down for daily driving and then crank it back up when ever you want. here is what i will do and what is soo hard to do with edit.
run 10psi on pump gas most of the time. dump in a 50% mix of good gas and pump gas and crank it up to 15+psi when i want it to run hard. all i will have to do is put in the good gas and turn the boost ****. that is it.
there is a feature where you can run up to 3 completely diferent ve and timing tables. that would be ideal because with race fuel you would like to run more timing. you can change the tables with a dash mounted switch or with a loptop if you have it hooked up. at this time we have not hooked up any kind of timing control.
what you are doing when i say tune is adjusting the ve table. the 2 axis on the ve table are rpm and boost. we are tuned all the way up to 11psi and 6000rpm right now. we can turn it down and are still tuned but if we turn it up we will want to keep an eye on things. the ve table goes up to 22psi, i just filled in the table from 11psi up to 22psi with the save ve numbers we had at 11psi. i am not sure if the ve will just keep going up with more boost or if some point it will drop off.
once you have the ve table set for a high boost set up you can then turn it down for daily driving and then crank it back up when ever you want. here is what i will do and what is soo hard to do with edit.
run 10psi on pump gas most of the time. dump in a 50% mix of good gas and pump gas and crank it up to 15+psi when i want it to run hard. all i will have to do is put in the good gas and turn the boost ****. that is it.
there is a feature where you can run up to 3 completely diferent ve and timing tables. that would be ideal because with race fuel you would like to run more timing. you can change the tables with a dash mounted switch or with a loptop if you have it hooked up. at this time we have not hooked up any kind of timing control.
12-02-2004, 10:11 PM
#36
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Thanks for the info. This system will take a lot of headache and detours involved with Edit, out of the tuning equation. Being able to adjust boost on the fly and not worry about your motor popping is a very big plus!
12-05-2004, 07:31 PM
#37
we took the truck to the dyno saturday. it was soo easy to tune as we turned up the boost. we started at 8psi and went all the way up to 18psi on a bone stock 4.8.
we had to make substancial changes to the ve table when we switched from pump gas over to race fuel. got to 494rwhp thru a 4l80e on a mustang dyno with race fuel and 428rwhp with pump gas. we ran into serious valve float and hit the limit of the boost controler with that waste gate spring.
we had to make substancial changes to the ve table when we switched from pump gas over to race fuel. got to 494rwhp thru a 4l80e on a mustang dyno with race fuel and 428rwhp with pump gas. we ran into serious valve float and hit the limit of the boost controler with that waste gate spring.
05-01-2005, 11:08 PM
#38
this is an old thread but i have people asking me mega questions so i thought i would post an update.
i maxed out my 57lb injectors an needed an upgrade so scott built me a flyback board and put it in the mega. i think it is about $50 worth of parts. with the flyback board i can now run low z injectors. i put 95lb units in there and it actualy runs better than it ever has. the 95lb low z injectors idle much better than the 57lb high z's.
i completely removed the stock maf and stock IAT sensor. it set some kind of maf out of limit code and i had to play with one table to get that to go away but other than that it runs fine without it. my IAT sensor is built into my maf sensor so it went with the maf.
we turned on the a/f targeting and it works great. i tell it what a/f to shoot for and it goes there. at idle and cruze is seems to like around 14-1 the best. any leaner and it gets prety lumpy. at WOT i target 11.8-1 and it does a killer job of holding that a/f ratio.
my t76 is maxed. it is just too small of a turbo for a 408 and way out of it's efficency range. best dyno numbers so far boost only are around 640rwhp and 800rwtq. with a 100shot we got to 767rwhp and 1000rwtq. best ET so far with the 100shot is 10.65 at 132mph(4700lb's and stock firestone AT tires).
the mega is working great.
i maxed out my 57lb injectors an needed an upgrade so scott built me a flyback board and put it in the mega. i think it is about $50 worth of parts. with the flyback board i can now run low z injectors. i put 95lb units in there and it actualy runs better than it ever has. the 95lb low z injectors idle much better than the 57lb high z's.
i completely removed the stock maf and stock IAT sensor. it set some kind of maf out of limit code and i had to play with one table to get that to go away but other than that it runs fine without it. my IAT sensor is built into my maf sensor so it went with the maf.
we turned on the a/f targeting and it works great. i tell it what a/f to shoot for and it goes there. at idle and cruze is seems to like around 14-1 the best. any leaner and it gets prety lumpy. at WOT i target 11.8-1 and it does a killer job of holding that a/f ratio.
my t76 is maxed. it is just too small of a turbo for a 408 and way out of it's efficency range. best dyno numbers so far boost only are around 640rwhp and 800rwtq. with a 100shot we got to 767rwhp and 1000rwtq. best ET so far with the 100shot is 10.65 at 132mph(4700lb's and stock firestone AT tires).
the mega is working great.
06-26-2005, 04:07 PM
#39
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man this is an awsome write up, I am glad someone took the time to do it.
I am going to be installing mine here soon once it arrives
thanks
ed
firebird455@gmail.com
I am going to be installing mine here soon once it arrives
thanks
ed
firebird455@gmail.com
12-02-2005, 01:52 AM
#40
necroposting i know... but im excited about learning this stuff.
Realy im not doing this because i need to. Im going to get all the stuff and megasquirt a stock 4.3. But my main issue is i have no experience in this at all. All i really need i figure is as long as i keep the a/f rations right.. or a little rich even, i will be ok. But what is right at idle then WOT and all that, i will need to learn a lot.
I paid $200 for the truck im doing this too... and i want a v8 in it. So if i lose the 6 banger, its not a big loss. But i would rather not blow it up. I should be able to learn something from fuel injecting this TBI 4.3
Realy im not doing this because i need to. Im going to get all the stuff and megasquirt a stock 4.3. But my main issue is i have no experience in this at all. All i really need i figure is as long as i keep the a/f rations right.. or a little rich even, i will be ok. But what is right at idle then WOT and all that, i will need to learn a lot.
I paid $200 for the truck im doing this too... and i want a v8 in it. So if i lose the 6 banger, its not a big loss. But i would rather not blow it up. I should be able to learn something from fuel injecting this TBI 4.3