first of all, soon i will be getting efi live or hp tuners. leaning more towards efi live though. right now i have a predator program in my car. can i use that program or do i have to start from scratch?? with the factory tune

ok next question, turning off ses codes, is that pretty simple to do? i want to get a basic understanding first before i get the tools. you can go into somewhat of a detail so i can kinda understand and that woudl be great if anyone can do that for me.

so say my fuel trims are off how do i go about adjusting those and is that hard to do? i have no clue on what has to be done, i have tried to search and some of it was just too technical for the understanding that i have.

what if im rich at wot, how do i adjust that, and can i do that at certain rpm levels?

how is the timing adjusted, and what else is tehre left that i may need to adjsut. i heard for fuel trims that there are 2 tables to use and one is for larger adjustment and the other is for tweaks. but i dotn knwo about that. is there a book that comes iwth it that explains it pretty good?

if someone can explain this i would really appreciate it. also, if someone could sell me on a programing package that would be good too cause i dont know who to go with and what the advantages are. i would like to tune my friends cars to make some cash back on it but i dont know if they have to have the same year as me. i would also like data logging and i like the fact that efi live has a unit that can do that without this computer in the car.

thanks guys

 

i believe hp tuners will let you download instructions from their site about how to use their product. Check out www.hptuners.com in the forum they have step by step instructions for getting your fuel correct using a w/b or narrowband o2 sensors. Everything you asked for is explained word for word in their forum in one of the stickys and if not is in their directions.

 

and personally i would put the stock tune back in and work off that...fwiw hptuners offers a trade in offer of like $50 if you send in your predator if im not mistaken. Email them about the details though.

 

the hardware for a predator is worth more than $50 for just a handheld code reader, imho.

But i would start with a stock file, and work from there.

Ryan

 

Try www.Ls1Tuners.com as well as http://www.hptuners.com/forum/YaBB.pl

 

first of all, soon i will be getting efi live or hp tuners. leaning more towards efi live though. right now i have a predator program in my car. can i use that program or do i have to start from scratch?? with the factory tune

start from stock!

ok next question, turning off ses codes, is that pretty simple to do? i want to get a basic understanding first before i get the tools. you can go into somewhat of a detail so i can kinda understand and that woudl be great if anyone can do that for me.

very simple with HP Tuners, just open your DTC settings, and you can either not report errors (which will complete VCM diagnostic tests, but not light up the SES) or just turn the bastard off altogether (although some tests might not complete which would raise a flag if you have OBD2 inspections)

so say my fuel trims are off how do i go about adjusting those and is that hard to do? i have no clue on what has to be done, i have tried to search and some of it was just too technical for the understanding that i have.

There a few ways to do VE tuning (wide and narrow band)... Just read read read read and research and really it's more helpful for you to get out and do some trial and error stuff... this will help you understand what your motor is doing better... hit me up on AIM if you ever wanna talk about it... TXHorns281

what if im rich at wot, how do i adjust that, and can i do that at certain rpm levels?

Easiest fix of them all... once you get your fuel trims in line, WOT tuning is a breeze, and yes with HP Tuners you can adjust incrementally...

how is the timing adjusted, and what else is tehre left that i may need to adjsut. i heard for fuel trims that there are 2 tables to use and one is for larger adjustment and the other is for tweaks. but i dotn knwo about that. is there a book that comes iwth it that explains it pretty good?

98-00 have a Primary VE and Secondary VE... 01-02 only run off the main... this is not a complicated subject but can be confusing if you have no idea about tuning period... Like I said, hit me up if you ever wanna talk about it! As far as timing goes, I know predator blankets the entire octane table with about slight increase (don;t remember what percentage but I used to be on a predator tune so I did notice this when comparing it to stock)

if someone can explain this i would really appreciate it. also, if someone could sell me on a programing package that would be good too cause i dont know who to go with and what the advantages are. i would like to tune my friends cars to make some cash back on it but i dont know if they have to have the same year as me. i would also like data logging and i like the fact that efi live has a unit that can do that without this computer in the car.

HP Tuners is extremely versatile and well priced for what you get! the latest version supports reading in wideband data or vaccum data and all sortsa neat stuff... The pending release of v1.6 is said to also be much much much more user friendly so that's a plus too... While EFI Live is useful as well (i don't know too much bout their software) a lot of people are enjoying HPT HPTs new pricing allows you to support 2 year models of your choice, and is not VIN locked or married (ie. if you pick 98 and 99 F-bodies, you can tune any 98 or 99 F-body) HPT data logs into your laptop, which to me is easier than putting it into some controller, then exporting it to your PC Cuz you can also see what's happening real time as well and attribute your car's behavior to the data being logged!

Hope this helps! If not, HIT ME UP ON AIM!!! TXHorns281

 

So agreed!!! Oh well, still get to save money rather than going to a tuner who would rather rush you out on a half-assed job... (no offense to all you tuners that actually care out there )

 

These are some things that helped me. They are from install university and hp tuners site.


Tuning your F-Body

First Stop - Tuning Long Term Fuel Trims (LTFT)

After the "no brainer" functions have been programmed using LS1 Edit (i.e. trouble code deletions, fan temperatures, torque management, etc.) you will want to do a lot of logging to see where your Long Term Fuel Trims (LTFT) are. The common thought on LTFT at the present time (7.122002) says to have them from -1 to -8 range. Go about logging them by taking a 15 minute cruise where you do NOT make any wide-open-throttle (WOT) runs. Don't drive mono tone but don't try to qualify for any Top Fuel Eliminators either. Let the car come up to normal operating temperature and why not cruise around for a few minutes before logging.

A few questions come up at this time:

• What do I use to log? - A scan tool of some kind, (Auto Tap or EFILiveV5) that will allow you to save the data and export it to MS Excel or equivalent program (Star Office for Linux users). I personally use both of the above (Auto Tap and EFILiveV5) because they use the same cable and have advantages to having both programs.
• What parameters do I log? - This is only a recommendation but I log many parameters such as:

TP %, RPM, ADV, KNOCK, Speed mph, LTFT1, LTFT2, O211 mV, O221 mV, BPW1 ms, BPW2 ms, BLMCell, MAF gm/s, MAF, MAP kPa, ECT F, FSAB, IAT F

The LTFT need to be negative in order to have a consistent results with your tuning. When the LTFT's are positive at part throttle right before you go wide-open-throttle (WOT) the computer will dump extra fuel thinking your car is lean. Positive LTFT's mean the computer is adding fuel because it believes the car is lean and a negative LTFT means the car is rich and the PCM does not add the extra fuel during a WOT run. It is very apparent that you want to get them negative so you can take one more variable out of the tuning process. At this point there are several ways to tune your LTFT so they are negative at part throttle.

Scaling the Entire MAF Table by a Percentage

This is probably the most common method used by do-it-yourselfers using LS1Edit. You will just scale the entire MAF table by a percentage (i.e. 3%, 5%, 10%, etc.) until you bring your LTFT between negative (-2) and negative eight (-8).

This is fine for a lot of applications but why not go the extra mile and do a better job. I like having my LTFT around the same number and in the range of negative two (-2). Scaling the entire MAF table by a percentage will most likely not accomplish that goal.

Read more about this method here!

Chris Bennight MS Excel Pivot Table Method

Chris was kind enough to share his method he uses to bring his LTFT between negative (-2) and negative eight (-8). This method uses curve fitting and semi-complicated Excel functions and task to perform. You derive an equation based on logged data and readjust the MAF table based on that equation. It is not for your everyday enthusiast but does offer a neat look into tuning your LTFT's.

IU's Choice Method: Modified Chris Bennight Method

This method is the method that InstallUniversity uses because it is easier to perform for the average enthusiast than Chris's way. Chris's method is great but we need something a little easier to understand, perform, and explain to others when sharing tuning tips. There will be more to come on this method over the next few days.

 

Injector Flow Rate Table

Normally, use your Injector Flow Rate (IFR) Table to adjust Long Term Fuel Trims (LTFT's.) Adjust IFR values downward to decrease LTFT; this tells the computer the injector is smaller than what it now believes. Hence, more fuel is added, which compensates for what the computer believes is a lean condition based on O2 Sensor readings, and brings the LTFT adjustment more negative.

Use John Skiba's Injector Flow Rate Table to get you in the ball-park if your values are for a radically larger Injector. (Go ahead and click on the link... it will appear in it's own window.)
So, adjust IFR's upward to increase LTFT (opposite of what I said for adjusting downward).

Try to maintain about 18% Throttle Position Angle (% TPA) when tuning LTFT's.)

The intent of the IFR table is to introduce a constant that coincides with the injector size and the Fuel Pressure.

Theoretically, if you haven't changed the injector or changed your Fuel Pressure, you should not modify this table. If your LTFT's are out of whack, you should first look for vacuum leaks and other abnormal situations. However, mod'ing the car can alter the LTFT's, so you may be justified in changing them if there are no problems that would induce such a shift.

The logic behind zeroing or negating LTFT's is that when you go WOT, LTFT's will be zeroed, meaning no additional fuel is going to be dumped into the engine at WOT, and tuning will be easier. It has been argued that if you can obtain positive LTFT's of a consistent value, this is just as good, as the value is predictable, and thus tunable. That argument seems to have merit to me. But, it has been my experience that when I make LTFT's zero or slightly negative, my car REALLY wakes up at WOT. It even seems more responsive at part throttle. But that is MY experience.

MAF Table

The MAF table calibrates the MAF Sensor and should be left stock if your MAF is stock. Period.

If you get an after-market MAF, in my opinion, they should supply you with, or point you to a means of, calibration for it. LS1-Edit or a MAFT are tools to accomplish this. But, you still need a properly calibrated curve matched to the physical calibration of the MAF to program in, if you want it accurate.

If you port or remove the screen of your MAF sensor, you have changed it (and will likely be running lean as a result of the increased airflow). Assuming one could port the MAF at home in a consistent way, if LTFT's are positive and MAF-related:

- Adjust MAF values upward 1% to decrease LTFT's by 1%.

- Adjust MAF values downward 1% to increase LTFT's by 1%.

So, if you are +10 on your LTFT's, scale the MAF table by a value of 110 (increases the table values by 10%), which will decrease LTFT's approximately -10%. It may take a couple tries. 95 (95% multiplier decreases table values by 5%), which would raise LTFT's approximately +5%.

Power Enrichment / RPM Table

In LS1 Edit, go to the Edit Menu / Engine Cal / Fuel Tab
in the Power Enrichment Frame (PE) and click the RPM Button.

You will then see a table with one row of multiplier values.

Make SMALL adjustments and check the graph to visualize the kind of curve you still want to approximate. Try bumping up or down a value by .01 to make slight compensations to the A/F ratio.

For instance, if you are too lean (but not very) in the range of 5600 to 6400, try raising the 1.2403 value to something like 1.25 or 1.26. Make small changes. Don't do anything drastic.

Click to see an example of a PE/RPM table mod HERE (PE/RPM Graph Example).

Increasing the Multiplier (the value in each table entry) adds fuel at WOT.

Decreasing the Multiplier subtracts fuel from what the previous value supplied.

This is the table to use to tune your A/F ratio on the dyno (which should decrease or increase O2 Banks 1 and 2 depending on whether you have leaned or richened the mixture, respectively). O2 Bank readings are one of the tools you would use to determine if you are running rich or lean at WOT, relatively speaking, when you are on the track or the street. I've heard that values of 870 to 930 mV (.870 or .930 volts) are a reasonable range for NA cars. For Forced induction, I try for no less than 920 mV; 930 mV makes me feel safer, still. There are arguments as to why you CAN'T use the O2 sensors to tune. But, everyone does, if they are not on a dyno... they ARE useful even if they are not terribly accurate from an ABSOLUTE perspective.

The keyword here is RELATIVE.

Let me stress, once again, the stock O2 Sensors are NOT an accurate measuring device of Air/Fuel Ratio at WOT. HOWEVER, if you realize their limitations, it is better to monitor them for rough double-checking when this is all you have on the street or at the track. (This does not apply to the Part-Throttle Tuning discussions above. The O2's are designed for, and adequate enough for, part-throttle cruise tuning.) A better solution for "off the dyno" measurement of A/F would be to invest in a Wideband O2 kit. They are quite expensive and I've heard even the DIY kits out there have components that may be hard to find or expensive by themselves. I'm sure it's not as expensive as your engine, though.

Also, in my experience, the car is leaner on the street than when you tune at the dyno, so you may want your target A/F on the dyno to be a half-point or so richer than your street/strip target. That may also depend on the type of dyno you are tuning on, so be sure to ask the dyno operator for his/her opinion.

That's my understanding of basic tuning the A/F Ratio for optimal performance.

The experts can chime in here to correct any misperceptions I may have.

Good luck!

Michael Buie

 

http://www.hptuners.com/forum/YaBB.p...num=1101426165

Good thread here as well as several others in the basics area.

 

awesome info guys. right now i have a proted maf, so should i put the stock one back on there, tune the car for stock maf and then put the ported on there and tune the maf table for that?

 

ok so it seems tuning for bolt ons should be easy, how about a cam, how hard is it to do or is it pretty much the same?

 

when you tune your fuel trims, you will want to unplug your MAF so it doesnt matter if it's ported or not... see SD Tuning

 

same methods, but the car will react a little differently... obviously a cammed car will trouble and toil more with the engine dynamics being totally off from the VCM... depending on the cam, generally it's going to be harder to tune... With bolt ons you can get away with things here and there that might make all the difference on a cammed...

 

but with the cam its the same process right? just have to be more precise. i have told predator what i want and where i want things done. i know how to check out fuel trims and timing and wot fuel (i know what my stock o2's need to read for the right mixture, long process for me to figure out lol) the thing is i have patients with this stuff and its really interesting to me. then i might do some buddies cars and get that money right back.

 

If I were you I would get the wideband setup along with the hptuners software so you can be accurate on what your doing especially if you plan on doing it for money. Unless of course you have access to a cheap dyno.

 

ok well, the problem with predator is that you can read data live, but it doesn't tell you a whole lot... the fuel trims you can read on it only tell you if you're runnin rich or lean, and basically any adjustments you make are a shot in the dark... this is where logging at incremental rpm and MAP values can help a great deal, just cuz you're considered "rich" doesn't mean your whole VCM tune is rich, just means that most of your table is rich but some parts of it could be just fine... either way it's still a shot in the dark... I mean without any log data or having the car in front of them, i honestly don't know how predator can properly "tune" a car... LIke i said, boltons don't make too much a difference so that's relatively easy to tune, but once you start changin engine dynamics, yes the method is the same, and yes you have to be more precise (like you said) so what I ask is how do you think predator achieves this precision? I guess you do trial and error with them over and over till it get's somewhat workable but why bother tuning a car unless it's done right, and you know it is too? I'm not knockin the preadtor, I used to have one up until the point i did internals... It's a great minor adjustment tuner for bolton cars, but after that I honestly don't think it can wholly support cars that need more than just corrected WOT A/F ratios...