O2 Sensor - Denso or Bosch?
O2 Sensor - Denso or Bosch? Hey all,
so I have came to the conclusion that my stock o2 sensors suck...
I'm considering swapping them out with newer o2's and the two brands that people tend to recommend are Bosch (specifically the 13111 vette rear) or Denso.
So I'm searching around trying to price this stuff and I knew Denso made a "universal" LS1 sensor (234-4000). I also looked at the rear sensor that came up when I did a search for a 1998 Z28 with an LS1 (234-4025). I had seen both those part numbers before so that was no big deal.
So since the Bosch's for the vettes have higher wattage heaters (why everyone uses them with headers) I decided to use a 2002 Corvette and the part number 234-4617 came up with a significantly higher price than the Z28 O2...Does anyone know whether this is a product with a higher wattage heater (like the Bosch's) or are they trying to re-package the same Z28 product with a higher price tag figuring vette owners will pay the price?
I was going to lean towards the Denso's to begin with. I want the best product possible, that will work with my headers across as big of a range of exhaust velocities possible. As it stands now, as soon as I take it down below a certain point on the throttle the sensors flatline. The switching speed "seems" to suck when it is logged, although I have read posts about the sensors being able to switch faster than the PCM will output data (esp the 98's).
Can anyone shed some light on this on whether the vette Densos (which are roughly double in price of the Z28s) are any better? Or any opinions of the Bosch/Denso performance is welcome, although I've read a lot of yours already.
Thanks.
so I have came to the conclusion that my stock o2 sensors suck...
I'm considering swapping them out with newer o2's and the two brands that people tend to recommend are Bosch (specifically the 13111 vette rear) or Denso.
So I'm searching around trying to price this stuff and I knew Denso made a "universal" LS1 sensor (234-4000). I also looked at the rear sensor that came up when I did a search for a 1998 Z28 with an LS1 (234-4025). I had seen both those part numbers before so that was no big deal.
So since the Bosch's for the vettes have higher wattage heaters (why everyone uses them with headers) I decided to use a 2002 Corvette and the part number 234-4617 came up with a significantly higher price than the Z28 O2...Does anyone know whether this is a product with a higher wattage heater (like the Bosch's) or are they trying to re-package the same Z28 product with a higher price tag figuring vette owners will pay the price?
I was going to lean towards the Denso's to begin with. I want the best product possible, that will work with my headers across as big of a range of exhaust velocities possible. As it stands now, as soon as I take it down below a certain point on the throttle the sensors flatline. The switching speed "seems" to suck when it is logged, although I have read posts about the sensors being able to switch faster than the PCM will output data (esp the 98's).
Can anyone shed some light on this on whether the vette Densos (which are roughly double in price of the Z28s) are any better? Or any opinions of the Bosch/Denso performance is welcome, although I've read a lot of yours already.
Thanks.
I am running the Bosch 13111 in my car. I am still having some issues with the passenger side. It just does what it wants to do. When I first put them in, everything was fine. After a while the passenger side threw a code, so I had it cleared and after like 50 miles or so it came back. I switched sensors from pass to driver and the other way around, and had the codes read (both were coding) and then deleted. Surprisingly enough, no code came back for quite some time. Then the passenger threw a code again, but disappeared by itself.
After this I did the cam swap, I got a code, but this time cam related, multiple misfires, but no O2 code.
Yesterday the car was tuned again, and after the usual amount of mileage...around 30 to 50, the light came back on. I had the code read, and it was a history code of the passenger side O2....after all, it was never cleared. Funny how this happened just after the tune.
I have Stainless Works headers, and I have had nothing but problems with O2 sensors...it's extremely annoying. So....for some people the Bosch 13111's work great, for others they work so so.....I am in the so so group
Manny
After this I did the cam swap, I got a code, but this time cam related, multiple misfires, but no O2 code.
Yesterday the car was tuned again, and after the usual amount of mileage...around 30 to 50, the light came back on. I had the code read, and it was a history code of the passenger side O2....after all, it was never cleared. Funny how this happened just after the tune.
I have Stainless Works headers, and I have had nothing but problems with O2 sensors...it's extremely annoying. So....for some people the Bosch 13111's work great, for others they work so so.....I am in the so so group
Manny
Yeah, there seems to be a lot of people for which the 13111's weren't the answer they were looking for...but yet it's worked great for another group of people. I'm just looking for a sensor that I can be confident it's going to work when I make the purchase. I've heard good and bad things about both...I was mainly wondering if the vette rear densos were going to be a better purchase (even though they were double the price) because of it it had a higher wattage heater like the bosch's...anybody know about the denso sensors?
I think WS6FirebirdTA00 has used both. Might want to PM him and get his input on which ones he likes better.
personally, i use the 13111s. the only time they burn out is when I'm runing rich tunes.
personally, i use the 13111s. the only time they burn out is when I'm runing rich tunes.
i used the stock ones and i have densos now. the densos are a little bit better than the stocker and heat up a little bit faster. they do seem to oscillate a little bit better but not really too much. i did notice a big change in fuel trims after swapping them though. it seems the car has gotten better though and fueling has gotten better. once they heat up i dont have any really odd changes from bank to bank they are pretty steady. and my stockers werent old at all. but i havent used the 13111, only the denso vette rears
Well, my car is starting to behave a bit better now.
Right after the tune when the SES light came on again for the first time, the car developed a surge at idle moving up and down ideling at 800 then 900 rpm....up and down...constantly.
After driving the car all over the place yesterday, the surging got less and less, then stopped completely. A while later, the SES light went off....so lets see how long things stay peaceful.
Manny
Right after the tune when the SES light came on again for the first time, the car developed a surge at idle moving up and down ideling at 800 then 900 rpm....up and down...constantly.
After driving the car all over the place yesterday, the surging got less and less, then stopped completely. A while later, the SES light went off....so lets see how long things stay peaceful.
Manny
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I run the Bosch 13111's. Sometimes they seem lazy but but they still swing even at idle and i've never gotten any codes. Despite some weird patterns they create its not reflected in my trims. Aways perfect between -4 and 0.
Last edited by SmokingWS6; Aug 22, 2005 at 12:02 PM.
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Verdad Gallardo Well, I think I'm still going to go with the vette densos...it seems the 13111's work well for some people, but seems to have problems with some people. I just want to be right the first time and have it run as well as possible at partial throttle. Thanks for your input everyone.
Originally Posted by SmokingWS6
I'd say the 13111's work out better than the denso's.
probably no matter which brand I go with it will gain performance over what I receive now, however
Either way you go, you are rolling the dice. I've seen people with the Bosch sensors that had them crap out right away, and I've also seen people with the Densos that have the same problem. That's the nature of the beast. For what it's worth, I've had my Bosch O2s in for about 10k miles, and I haven't heard a peep out of them. My car is tuned pretty well though, and I think that helps.
