GuitsBoy

iTrader: (4)

No, it really only seems to happen there. My IACs jumped from 21 outside to 30 inside for no reason.

Maybe in the morning when I first start my car it might bog a little at a stop sign or stop light, but after it warms up a little the idle trims sort themselves out and the rest of the stoplights and stop and go traffic is fine.... till i get to the damn garage. This is the weirdest thing. I should have saved my log file this morning. Ill try and duplicate it tomorrow, but I dont know if the inside and ooutside temperatures will match up as well as they did today.

Steel Chicken

iTrader: (3)

yeah save your log file, id love to see it

GuitsBoy

iTrader: (4)

Here's a log from this afternoon. Its not as profound as this morning's was, but unfortunately i dont have a log of that one. I was only watching it in realtime.

Anyway, you can clearly see how when outside the LTIT was -.25 with stit of -.13... you can see that as soon as i get inside the first couple of short stops rocket the stit's up to +.80 or so.

http://www.ihearyou.com/~tony/tuning/09-20-05_idle.csv

Very interested to hear what you guys think.

Thanks, -Tony

GuitsBoy

iTrader: (4)

Do you think it might have to do with the headlights turning on and putting extra load on the alt? Can this be accounted for?

gameover

Does the idle drop when you turn the headlights on under other conditions? Only the cooling fans electrical load is compensated for in the PCM.

Chris...

GuitsBoy

iTrader: (4)

I didnt think about turning on the lights until i was alreadh here at work. Ill have to try this out around lunchtime. Ill see if the headlights affect the idle trims in any way.

GuitsBoy

iTrader: (4)

looks like that's the culprit.

Turned on the lights outside and watched the STITs jump up about .60 g/sec. Then after I pulled into the garage, I shut off the car, then I started her back up with the e-brake on so the lights would stay off. When I released the e-brake handle, the lights flicked on and the STITs climbed to almost .75 g/sec. Guess I figured out where the extra airflow is going. Now I just need to know how to compensate for it. Any ideas?

P Mack

iTrader: (6)

You could get a huge capacitor. j/k

soundengineer

iTrader: (16)

If electrical is causing th eproblems..you could try the Spark dwell time... log voltage..see where it dips and where is normally sits at and try to increas just slightly on those #'s

thats about the only way to fix a voltage problem other than to "Put in a capacitor" like the car stereo guys do on big boomin car stereos...

or a higher amperage alternator...maybe...MAYBE...

WS6FirebirdTA00

iTrader: (33)

interesting...i see odd airflow values like that but its not really anything to do with the lights, although my fog lights are on when i get hot idle info sometimes...very strange...stock pulleys?

Bink

From HP Tuners - Engine Torque :


Accessory Torque: This is the model of accessory torque load on the engine (excluding AC compressor when engaged).


FWIW.

soundengineer

iTrader: (16)

I looked at that table...dint seem to make sense to me....it for how much friction the accessories are putting on the system as far as I can tell...
it honestly seems liek an electrical issue to me

GuitsBoy

iTrader: (4)

Theyre stock pulleys, and voltage dosnt seem any different than when the car was new. Ive already tripled the 3 or 4 low rpm cells in the accessory torque table and it seems to have helped considerably. However the .75 g/sec or ~10 IAC counts was seen while this was already in place.

Can someone else watch their airflow and see how much it changes when you put your lights and foglights on during the day? Maybe others experience the same thing, but it isnt really a problem if theyre not parking in a garage or somewhere that would make you come to a stop with your headlights on during the day.

WS6FirebirdTA00

iTrader: (33)

when i get my plugs in ill check it out

WS6FirebirdTA00

iTrader: (33)

turned my fog lights on and all the numbers for idle air chagned, what did you change in the computer to help compensate for this? my idle air numbers changed a lot IMO about 0.3 g/sec

GuitsBoy

iTrader: (4)

I havnt found anything to compensate for it, so either ill have to put my lights on all the time, or simply at a stoplight where my idle wont dip so much so it can learn.

I am guessing my problem is compounded by the fact that Im coming to a stop inside the garage. The STITs havnt had a chance to learn the extra airflow needed, and when im coming to a stop, its enough to dip the RPMs significantly. Maybe the answer lies in throttle follower tables? I dont really know. Im open to any and all suggestions. But I am glad to see that your airflow goes up as well. I dont know why Im seeing twice the increase that you are, but atleast I dont feel like such an outcast anymore. One step closer to figuring this all out.

Thanks,
-Tony

WS6FirebirdTA00

iTrader: (33)

ill post any findings i have, once i test some stuff

WS6FirebirdTA00

iTrader: (33)

i wonder if it would have anything to do with the injector offset table, im gonna see if it did anythign to my fuel trims going on and off

soundengineer

iTrader: (16)

If the problem happens when his lights come on then it electrical...not GAS...
which means that he needs to fix the DC current draw somehow...the best way to do this would be to put in a storage capacitor that can handle the sudden surge of current needed...car stereo guys do it all the time...and car stereo guys have similar problems with their unmodified piece of junk cars with $10000 worth of stereo stuff in it...(I know..at one point in my life I installed a lot of them)
you might want to get an overdrive pulley for the alternator, or get a higher current alternator...thats one of the best bets...

I am positive you will not fix this properly with anything other than electrical areas

I could go into a big discussion about electrical laws and functions...but all you need to know is the lights come on...the voltage causes a current/amperage sag(might be minimal but its there)and once the sag is gone your car recovers fine(meaning if your lights are on and its recovered from its problems... than you dont have any more problems after that)

always fix issues at their source..not somewhere where it really isnt but seem sto work a a band-aid

GuitsBoy

iTrader: (4)

Soundman, the voltage sag is not momentary, its indefinate. Any its not a large voltage drop or anything. I havnt taken a voltmeter to it, but the needle dosnt move at all. A capacitor might help for a fraction of a second until its discharged, but I would then be in the same position. The reason the car recovers from the bogging is simply that the STITs see the rpm dip and raise airflow accordingly. I do not believe that I have some electrical gremlins causing a problem here. I believe that Im dealing with the same issues everyone else has, Its just that my particular driving habits are the perfect situation for these problems to arise.

If I put my headlights on during the day at hot idle, I can see the STITs raise slowly and comfortably and the egine does not want to stall. Now if I flip on the headlights while braking to a stop, The car wants to stall when i finally get to a complete stop. This to me says that its a problem with my tune.