Wideband Accuracy? Which ones work the best?
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Wideband Accuracy? Which ones work the best? Which Wideband tools, LM1, Dynotune etc are the most accurate? Have any been compared side by side?
Anyone heard of any being off considerably?
Anyone heard of any being off considerably?
Last edited by Steve40th; Sep 30, 2005 at 11:01 PM.
Thread Starter
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Thanks, My tuner was told that the LM1 was as high as .6 above what you really are.
He is a reputable tuner, and my tune was 13.5 till around 5500 then it went to 11.59. But no detonation or spark knock with 11.1to cpmpression on pump gas.
He is a reputable tuner, and my tune was 13.5 till around 5500 then it went to 11.59. But no detonation or spark knock with 11.1to cpmpression on pump gas.
I would vote for both since they are the same. 
We manufacture the digital gauges but the widebands we supply with our gauges our Innovate Widebands. We can help you with our setups or any Innovate product. We have found them to be excellent as far as accuracy and quality are concerned.
Hope this helps!
Dean
We manufacture the digital gauges but the widebands we supply with our gauges our Innovate Widebands. We can help you with our setups or any Innovate product. We have found them to be excellent as far as accuracy and quality are concerned.Hope this helps!
Dean
Steve, are you sure he wasnt referring to the difference b/w street/load and dynojet load? I have tried "your" LM-1 against a Commander and the two were identical basically.
Currently using a DYNO JET commander. On my last dyno tune installed dynos o2 sensor in the "I" pipe (extra bung) next to commanders sensor both were reading and responding the same. Unit has been working great! Glad I spent the extra money for it.
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Originally Posted by CAT3
Steve, are you sure he wasnt referring to the difference b/w street/load and dynojet load? I have tried "your" LM-1 against a Commander and the two were identical basically.
The street load and DYno load I have heard before. But not any real information on knowledge on it. Thats a good point, because wont a car be leane on the street as you are pulling longer, if through 3 gears,for example?
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Verdad Gallardo A little lengthy but I think it helps explain why Innovates technology is the best on the market.
The biggest difference is actually the (pat. pend.) measurement principle of the Innovate Wideband. It is different from all other widebands in that it does NOT use the pump current as AFR indication. Instead it uses the sensor to form with the Wideband circuit what's called a delta-sigma analog to digital converter. The difference is that the analog signal in this case is not a voltage or current, but directly the exhaust gas composition. This allows it to:
A: react extremely fast with no settling or overswing
B: be independent of electronic parts tolerances and drifts
C: compensate for sensor drift due to aging every time you do a free air calibration.
D: calibrate for the actual sensor characteristic independent of the factory calibration resistor, which is only correct when the sensor is new.
E: is much less susceptible to exhaust back pressure.
Another advantage of that measurement principle is automatic compensation for 'rich gas loading'. This is an effect most WB manufacturers do not compensate for or even know of. When a WB sensor is operating in a rich gas for a prolonged time (minutes), it's cells 'load up' and slowly drift, requiring more and more pump current. This will indicate richer and richer than it actually is. If the ECU is WB controlled in closed loop, the engine would actually run leaner and leaner to compensate.
The Innovates measurement principle is not susceptible to that.
Dean
The biggest difference is actually the (pat. pend.) measurement principle of the Innovate Wideband. It is different from all other widebands in that it does NOT use the pump current as AFR indication. Instead it uses the sensor to form with the Wideband circuit what's called a delta-sigma analog to digital converter. The difference is that the analog signal in this case is not a voltage or current, but directly the exhaust gas composition. This allows it to:
A: react extremely fast with no settling or overswing
B: be independent of electronic parts tolerances and drifts
C: compensate for sensor drift due to aging every time you do a free air calibration.
D: calibrate for the actual sensor characteristic independent of the factory calibration resistor, which is only correct when the sensor is new.
E: is much less susceptible to exhaust back pressure.
Another advantage of that measurement principle is automatic compensation for 'rich gas loading'. This is an effect most WB manufacturers do not compensate for or even know of. When a WB sensor is operating in a rich gas for a prolonged time (minutes), it's cells 'load up' and slowly drift, requiring more and more pump current. This will indicate richer and richer than it actually is. If the ECU is WB controlled in closed loop, the engine would actually run leaner and leaner to compensate.
The Innovates measurement principle is not susceptible to that.
Dean
While I won't bash the LC1, I have one sitting 3 feet from me. For high horsepower cars, I always use a NTK based wideband, the AFM1000 is a good unit, without having to go to a $5,000 Horiba setup.
Comparing a AFM1000 to a LM1, they're close if you take the time to properly calibrate the LM1 with the vehicel running so the voltage is stable, and the sensor in free air.
Ryan
Comparing a AFM1000 to a LM1, they're close if you take the time to properly calibrate the LM1 with the vehicel running so the voltage is stable, and the sensor in free air.
Ryan
On The Tree
Joined: Sep 2004
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From: ALBUQUERQUE, NM
Zeitronix?? Anyone have any experience with the Zeitronix wideband set up? Some of the features they advertise look great and the price is pretty good.
http://www.zeitronix.com/index.html
http://www.zeitronix.com/index.html
Originally Posted by tamanjd
sorry to hijack but 618hawk where did you hook up your tach wire on your dynojet wb, I hooked mine up to the tach wire on the pcm but it doesnt seem to be working right?
yea i tried the config on the laptopbut it didnt seem to work right, still dont have the o2 hooked up yet maybe that is what is wrong getting a custom turbo setup so i dont have the bung welded in yet. I guess Ill try some more when I get that hooked up. thanks though
Originally Posted by tamanjd
yea i tried the config on the laptopbut it didnt seem to work right, still dont have the o2 hooked up yet maybe that is what is wrong getting a custom turbo setup so i dont have the bung welded in yet. I guess Ill try some more when I get that hooked up. thanks though
Once all in you shoud be fine. Unit works great I think you will be happy.
Chris
I have a NTK based meter and have used a LM1 with the bosche sensor. They both corresponded pretty close when I had them on the car at the same time. The NTK sensor is more sensative to pressure than the bosche sensor so i'm told. When I had my NTK sensor in the exhaust after the turbo and the bosche sensor in the pipe before turbo they differed by about .3 AFR which IMO is close enough for me since I tune for 11.0 AFR. .3 doesn't mean jack power wise at 11.0:1.
The wideband is kind of like a dyno, as long as it's consistant and close to reality every time you use it, you should have no problems.
The wideband is kind of like a dyno, as long as it's consistant and close to reality every time you use it, you should have no problems.