questin about VE table
This is common on out VE graphs and you will find this common why you get on a dyno as well. Remeber one thing....your VE table always represents your TQ graph. They go hand in hand. You will find most cams dip in that spot. Your doing just fine.
Rick
Rick
Thanks for the replies fellas. Patrick, good suggestionm. I am running near stock timing; 23-25 degrees down low and 23 at idle. I will try turning that up and see what happens. I was under the assumption I needed to dial in the VE table then work on timing 
WS6 and Gman thanks for the pics, but Gman the link doesnt open to any album when I click on it.
I will do some experimenting with these variables and let you guys know how it works out.
Now for
Why do we need so much timing at idle/low rpm with a cam? I would just like a brief tech explanation if anybody knows?
WS6 and Gman thanks for the pics, but Gman the link doesnt open to any album when I click on it.
I will do some experimenting with these variables and let you guys know how it works out.
Now for
Why do we need so much timing at idle/low rpm with a cam? I would just like a brief tech explanation if anybody knows?
Last edited by bowtieman81; Oct 10, 2005 at 08:22 AM.
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,319
Likes: 1
From: North Carolina
i would think the more timing is needed because iwth the cam it takes more time for the mixture to burn. high overlap cams can keep some exhaust gases in there that dont help speed things up at all.
Originally Posted by bowtieman81
Why do we need so much timing at idle/low rpm with a cam? I would just like a brief tech explanation if anybody knows?
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
TECH Addict
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,261
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by HumpinSS
the extra timing will also add the pep back in the cars step and if it smells it will help clean some of it up
My car is much better since I bumped idle timing advance ( both closed throttle tables) to 31*. You guys were talking about 32* being a big help with Idle - I tried 32* but it surged a little as IAT went up. Maybe it's the Electronic Throttle Control??
Anyway it helped alot and the stink is MUCH less.....I took a 175 mile trip and I didn't stink after the drive.
BTW/FWIW......my cam has 33* overlap @.050". The PCM/EFI does wonders for idle and part throttle response.
LS1 Tech Stories
The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time
6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them
Pouria Savadkouei
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Pouria Savadkouei
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP
Verdad Gallardo
Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes
Verdad Gallardo
Awesome K5 Blazer Restomod Comes With C7 Corvette Power
Verdad Gallardo
10 Camaros You Should Never Buy
10 LS Engine Myths That Refuse to Die
Verdad Gallardo
Originally Posted by HumpinSS
the extra timing will also add the pep back in the cars step and if it smells it will help clean some of it upThats awesome, the wife doesnt like the smell too much (I admit I dont like it either). Thanks again.
Originally Posted by Bink
So that's why my Stank is Less!!
My car is much better since I bumped idle timing advance ( both closed throttle tables) to 31*. You guys were talking about 32* being a big help with Idle - I tried 32* but it surged a little as IAT went up. Maybe it's the Electronic Throttle Control??
Anyway it helped alot and the stink is MUCH less.....I took a 175 mile trip and I didn't stink after the drive.
BTW/FWIW......my cam has 33* overlap @.050". The PCM/EFI does wonders for idle and part throttle response.
My car is much better since I bumped idle timing advance ( both closed throttle tables) to 31*. You guys were talking about 32* being a big help with Idle - I tried 32* but it surged a little as IAT went up. Maybe it's the Electronic Throttle Control??
Anyway it helped alot and the stink is MUCH less.....I took a 175 mile trip and I didn't stink after the drive.
BTW/FWIW......my cam has 33* overlap @.050". The PCM/EFI does wonders for idle and part throttle response.
Rick
OK, added some idle timing (up to 28 degrees)and some timing in the 2000 rpm and lower cells in main tables (basically took stock table and bumped it up 3-4 degrees in that range).
Results: idle is much smoother now
. The rpm doesn't "hunt" nearly as much now. I like.
Low rpm driving shows more response and is smoother now. Definite improvement, but have not eliminated the bucking totally. I think I am on the right track, and will keep tweaking this weekend.
A question: I bumped up timing in the .16 - .36 g/sec area of the main timing table (from 800 rpm - 2000 rpm range).
Should I bump up the timing in the ranges more than .36 g/sec?
Results: idle is much smoother now
. The rpm doesn't "hunt" nearly as much now. I like.Low rpm driving shows more response and is smoother now. Definite improvement, but have not eliminated the bucking totally. I think I am on the right track, and will keep tweaking this weekend.
A question: I bumped up timing in the .16 - .36 g/sec area of the main timing table (from 800 rpm - 2000 rpm range).
Should I bump up the timing in the ranges more than .36 g/sec?
OK, will do.
But, my question is in general if a cam like ours needs more timing at low rpm, low g/sec to run better does it need more timing in the higher g/sec range (like .36-.52 range)?
I am just trying to determine if, and how much, I should up the timing in the 800-2400 rpm range.
But, my question is in general if a cam like ours needs more timing at low rpm, low g/sec to run better does it need more timing in the higher g/sec range (like .36-.52 range)?
I am just trying to determine if, and how much, I should up the timing in the 800-2400 rpm range.
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,319
Likes: 1
From: North Carolina
it needs more in the idle range, and from there it needs about 3 deg more or so, just a little more outside of idle range, but not as much as the idle area was increased
Originally Posted by bowtieman81
OK, added some idle timing (up to 28 degrees)and some timing in the 2000 rpm and lower cells in main tables (basically took stock table and bumped it up 3-4 degrees in that range).
Results: idle is much smoother now . The rpm doesn't "hunt" nearly as much now. I like.
Low rpm driving shows more response and is smoother now. Definite improvement, but have not eliminated the bucking totally. I think I am on the right track, and will keep tweaking this weekend.
A question: I bumped up timing in the .16 - .36 g/sec area of the main timing table (from 800 rpm - 2000 rpm range).
Should I bump up the timing in the ranges more than .36 g/sec?
Results: idle is much smoother now
. The rpm doesn't "hunt" nearly as much now. I like.Low rpm driving shows more response and is smoother now. Definite improvement, but have not eliminated the bucking totally. I think I am on the right track, and will keep tweaking this weekend.
A question: I bumped up timing in the .16 - .36 g/sec area of the main timing table (from 800 rpm - 2000 rpm range).
Should I bump up the timing in the ranges more than .36 g/sec?
Always keep in mind one thing. If you are looking for the perfect ride, put the stock cam back in. So if your cam has slight bucking still and you dont see anymore improvment with other methods, then your good.
You can add timing where you feel you can get away with it. Some things I have others do with their cars when they ask what to do with their table is I ask them to do a compression test. Figure out what your cylinder pressure is, figure out the heat range of the plugs and so forth. This will help the whole combo come together.
Rick
Thanks WS6 and Rick.
For me I am really after the power this cam can make. My problem currently is 2-fold: I have a decent amount of bucking/stumbling and the powerband is soft in low rpm. If I can get eh power straightened out and reduce the bucking I would be happy. Like I said, I think I am on the path thanks to you guys.
FWIW, my cylinder compression is 200-215 psi in all 8, and I just switched from NGK TR55 to TR6 plugs. The tr55 were showing signs of running to hot. My compression ratio is stock 10:1.
For me I am really after the power this cam can make. My problem currently is 2-fold: I have a decent amount of bucking/stumbling and the powerband is soft in low rpm. If I can get eh power straightened out and reduce the bucking I would be happy. Like I said, I think I am on the path thanks to you guys.
FWIW, my cylinder compression is 200-215 psi in all 8, and I just switched from NGK TR55 to TR6 plugs. The tr55 were showing signs of running to hot. My compression ratio is stock 10:1.
Originally Posted by bowtieman81
Thanks WS6 and Rick.
For me I am really after the power this cam can make. My problem currently is 2-fold: I have a decent amount of bucking/stumbling and the powerband is soft in low rpm. If I can get eh power straightened out and reduce the bucking I would be happy. Like I said, I think I am on the path thanks to you guys.
FWIW, my cylinder compression is 200-215 psi in all 8, and I just switched from NGK TR55 to TR6 plugs. The tr55 were showing signs of running to hot. My compression ratio is stock 10:1.
For me I am really after the power this cam can make. My problem currently is 2-fold: I have a decent amount of bucking/stumbling and the powerband is soft in low rpm. If I can get eh power straightened out and reduce the bucking I would be happy. Like I said, I think I am on the path thanks to you guys.
FWIW, my cylinder compression is 200-215 psi in all 8, and I just switched from NGK TR55 to TR6 plugs. The tr55 were showing signs of running to hot. My compression ratio is stock 10:1.
Rick
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,319
Likes: 1
From: North Carolina
Rick knows his ****. I just put some colder plugs in my car, colder than the TR-6. My VE was damn good but I was still getting some knock. The last log I had today, even with heavy engine load, I only saw 2 spots of knock, all under 1*. I run the BR7EF now gapped at 0.045" and my cranking pressure is over 230 psi at 10.2:1 CR. Shoot me your bin if you would like and I can compair ours. Once I get in the power band of the cam its pretty sick. Of course with the stock gearing it doesnt help much with bogging but none the less, still pulls strong.
Originally Posted by WS6FirebirdTA00
Rick knows his ****. I just put some colder plugs in my car, colder than the TR-6. My VE was damn good but I was still getting some knock. The last log I had today, even with heavy engine load, I only saw 2 spots of knock, all under 1*. I run the BR7EF now gapped at 0.045" and my cranking pressure is over 230 psi at 10.2:1 CR. Shoot me your bin if you would like and I can compair ours. Once I get in the power band of the cam its pretty sick. Of course with the stock gearing it doesnt help much with bogging but none the less, still pulls strong.
Rick