ok, got a LT1 383 9:1 compression that i'm putting a 76mm turbo on. my question, after seeing the pissing contest between Parish8 and some others, is which would be better for the LT1? The guy i'm buying most of my parts from has a FAST that was installed on a LT1, and i can't really beat the price, but would one of the other 2 be better?

 

A Fast system for the LT1 should do very well.

The sale point on the MS is that it is only 200.00 dollars and can run the engine and trans. It can also run 16 injectors staged, this is something only the BS3 can do, the FAST can only gang fire the 2 injectors at the same time to drive 16. If they can really sell this MS with all that function for 200.00 dollars, they will sell well.

Kurt

 

The MS is a great product, however there isnt alot of vendor support, its mostly grass roots, however very well organized.

most shops have not dealed with the MS
ed

 

BS3 for the LT1 too. The FAST for the LT1 is solid but the BS3 is the better overall product and it's better supported by the manufacturer.

 

I say F.A.S.T. all the way! I have been doing alot of research on this and I've come to the conclusion that fast is a way better product. With the bs3 you will have to buy a sbc harness and cut 'n' splice. With the fast you can buy the system already configured to run the otpi with a plug and play harness and also have the capability to change to a dist. or dis if you what. The xfi has more features than the bs3 including knock retard if you want. I say for an ls1 bs3, but lt1 you gotta go fast. oh and as for customer support fast is waaaaaaaayyyyyyy better. I been trying to call the bs3 guys for the last month to get some questions answered. its impossiable.

 

oh and what is MS??

 

I still say the MS is a very viable alternative, and at the price you really cant beat it.

Its going to run you about 500 all said and done, and you could easily convert your LT1 over to coil on plug via the Ford Edist.

It is a great system, that alot of people have written off for some reason, I do not understand why.

 

"lt1fbody355 oh and what is MS?? "

Mega squirt. You can find them on ebay all the time being sold as kits.

 

What does MS stand for and where can I get some info on it??

 

http://www.megasquirt.info/

 

the megasquirt looks like an excellent bargain and looks like it would do everything i want, but the guy installing the turbo knows how to tune w/ the FAST and the local guy that's going to help me tune it to this altitude is also familiar w/ the FAST. guess i'll have to do some more thinking on this. is there any reason to go w/ the MS or the BS3 over the FAST on a LT1 other than the price of the MS?

 

Ehhh.... some input.

FAST software sorta sucks, and they're known for slow bug fixes. However, most bugs have been worked out of the LT1 setup, as I understand it.

FastXFI *just* came out with "mappable RPM bins" - megasquirt has had these for a long time. Bothers me to see pro units coming out with copies of freely-available stuff. It's a great idea to have mapped RPM bins especially for drag cars with big converters, etc. A buddy who runs a FAST on an 8.2 sec mustang complains because his version does NOT have mappable RPM points - thus the car spends all of it's time on the street in one cell on the VE map, which IS ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE for a standalone!!!

I can tell you from firsthand experience that Megatune, the laptop software you run, is far more stable and bug-free than FAST, BigStuff3, or Gen7 DFI. I've used Gen 7 exetensively, sorta like it just from familiarity - I've tuned 2 FAST setups that were already installed, it's got some buggy software also... In looking at BS3 over Meaney's shoulder on Drag Week - on one screen there were fields that weren't even in the display, and you couldn't get to them because the software was totally buggy. The response to this when I asked was, "we're working on the remaining bugs yet" and the guy telling me that was the developer of FAST, Gen 6 DFI, and BS3... kinda unacceptable to me if I'm paying $2000+ to get something not even ready for the market yet?

I read where someone here said "FAST has a nicer software package than MS" - I disagree, MS is what I would call "more intuitive" - there are FAR fewer menu's and screens to figure out how to do a basic configuration. FOr the first time tuner, MS is definitely the way to go. Even the AEM guys will tell you if you are new to standalones, the MegaManual (instructions for megasquirt) is far and away the best "general standalone tuning guide" available for free on the internet.

And if you've done research on standalones and don't know what MS is - time to do more research. I'm pretty sure more MS units have been sold this year than all other standalone's combined (over 10,000 units as of September).

One final thing to consider is that MS has a good 20+ developers working on features and improvements... while I'm sure FAST and the others have maybe 2-3 guys doing the same amount of work? In some cases the software development is outsourced, so there's NO ONE who can answer deep technical questions at the company.

As an example of the development power beyhind MS, MS is now supporting the sensors that come in Flex Fuel vehicles. Not that it matters for your case, but it's cool that I can use an MS and build my own flex-fuel system (capable of running ANY percentage of alcohol/fuel and compensating directly) for just a few hundred bucks. That caters to a whole different audience... and is something it would take FAST a *long *** time* to integrate into their system, IMO.

I realize most of this is rambling, and if the question is "Will a FAST work good on my built up LT1?" the answer is YES, it'll work just fine. But don't consider it the "latest/greatest" thing out there because development-wise, FAST has been behind megasquirt for a long time,

-scott

 

scott,
I think i was who you are talking about on the FAST software, I was meaning the fast software looks better than the MS. Didnt mention the performance.

where are you downloading all your software for MS from?
thanhks
ed

 

MS is confusing in this way, you want Megatune 2.25b417 or later... but read the instructions below on how to configure it so the options are all opened up:

http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra

-scott

 

thanks scott,

downloading 2.25b627 right now

ordering that boad tomorrow, to send all this stuff off to you
ed

 

Scott,
I am not a electronics guy like you. I may be more like the typical customer for stand alone products. I want something that works for me that is packaged well. You cannot tell something is flawed by looking over somebody's shoulder, even if you don't like them.
A couple of things I see.
Parish has a fast truck.
Parish has coils controlled by GM.
Parish has trans controlled by GM.
Parish has fuel controlled by MS.

Mike Brown has a CE firebird with a BS3 on it. (we have done others,but this one is street driver)
MB car is fast(high 8 sec et) no misfire.
Trans shifts controlled by BS3. (4L80E)
Coils controlled by BS3.
Inj controlled by BS3.

When all these things can be done for less I am all ears. I will buy and test anything on the market that will make the engines I sell faster or just as fast and reliable for less money.

Things I was told when I called about MS.
SEFI control was coming, but not available.
Individual coil control for coil on plug. Only if I could run wastedspark. This meant no individual timing control. I could live with this on some engines.
Trans control. I was told no. Possible in the future.
Staged injection. I was told no. They could run 2 per runner firing both at once. This option would not work for me.

So I would still say to a customer that calls me today for a system to run a high hp gen3 standalone, BS3 would be my first choice. This is from my experience with working cars. It would cost about 2,200. dollars ready to plug and play. Pro Stock John did pay a little less for his, Parish would get the same price.

On Topic: If the price is right on the FAST system, it will work well. Perfect? No. But I have made many a reliable pass with the FAST system (although I like the old DOS software better).

Kurt

 

Kurt -

You make great points.

If I were in charge of W2W, I would probably only want to selll third party equipment. I understand exactly where you are coming from...

however, my point on the megasquirt compared to BS3 software, is because some people claim "written by amateurs" or " buggy software" and in my experience with standalones, all listed above EXCEPT BS3 (where I watched it's CREATOR explain that the bug fixes would be forthcoming), have more interface glitches and incomplete application programming, than you'll find in megasquirt.

However, some corrections: MS has done staged injection since before Gen 7 and BS3 were even in existence. Before it even did ignition control...

MS isn't something you can "call" about and find out what it does. It's for the intrepid DIY'er, who can afford the time to get up to speed on MS. In trade for that time, it gives you *all* the advantages of the other guys...

Coilpack and Trans control is no rocket science. It just takes one of us geeks to do it, document it, and the rest of the world can use it...

As far as SEFI: How many engines are built that need this, and how many tuners in this country actually USE cylinder fuel and timing trims? If I were building a $100,000 motor, I'd probably not care that I saved $1500 on my EMS. I'm sure YOU may tune motors with individual EGT and AFR gauges (or however the 1% of tuners that can do this, actually do it) but I know of PLENTY of 1600-2000HP motors that DO NOT need individual cylinder trims.

This board is rare in that we have guys like Kurt Urban acually mixing/mingling with us plebe tuners...!!! I think it's cool. I think the MS-versus-all debate should be put in proper context, as Kurt did above, but I also tihnk it should be taken more seriously than it curently is.

as for ignition and trans control, don't wory - Brains, Parish, myself, and some extremely smart guys are working on it!!!!

ps - nice meeting you in Martin, and the article in HRM was excellent. Congrats on your accomplishments, which will last a lifetime!!!

-scott

 

If you ever want to "call" and talk about MS with one of the founders, call me and I will give you his number (you passed very close to his house if you went with Parish to Chicago).

If someone wants to run there coils and trans today, I can ship it tommorow. They don't need to figure anything out.

To clear up any confusion: We use BS3 on a daily basis, the software works.

I did use my individual timing and fuel a ton when I ran nitrous. I use it some now. Casper has a little fuel out of the front cylinders, and a little timing in the back. I do this off plug readings, my eyes are free.

Kurt

 

So Kurt, you're buddies with Al Grippo or Bruce Bowling? Awesome!!!

-scott

 

Scott,
We seem to run around on points here where you explain why I don't need what MS can't do. Or BS3 is just not good.

Parish's truck+MS= missfire at high boost.20+
My 352 LS1+Bs3=no missfire at 30+psi (at rpm's reaching 9000) Currently fastest/quickest ls1 on planet, using truck coils just like Parish.

MS has its place i'm sure.
BS3 has its place also.

Kurt

My friend that works with MS is Ray Burmley from here in Mi.