Understanding 1153 & 1154
12-17-2005, 05:29 AM
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Understanding 1153 & 1154 Hey Tim,
I don't know how old your sensors are or what mods you have done, so you can assume that every cars situation and solution will vary a bit.
Here's the short version of my case:
After 6 or 7 new sensors (including the corvette ones that "supposedly" solve the problem but didn't), 2 different cat configurations, a new exhaust, 2 different mufflers, 2 different tail pipes and tips, exhaust heat wrap tape, new bosch platinum plugs with 9mm MSD wires, a custom pcv filter and oil catch can, three cans of the best throttle body cleaner available, countless cleanings of my K&N air filter, who knows how many bottles of fuel injector cleaner, I rebuilt the exhaust several times checking for leaks, cleaned the Mass Air Sensor several times, tried 2 different air boxes and tubing, and checked every wire several times. After a more then a year, countless hours of labor, and well over a thousand dollars, THE LIGHT NEVER WENT OFF!
I refused to just "turn off" or "delete" the codes because I knew my ECM would stay in open loop mode if I did, and as a result, mileage and performance would greatly suffer.
An open-loop controller does not use feedback to control states or outputs of a dynamic system. Open-loop control is used for systems that are sufficiently well characterized to predict what inputs are necessary to achieve the desired states or outputs.
In open loop mode, your engine runs off the factory program and NOT your specific conditions. Since the factory program is designed to run a STOCK LS1, you would not receive any benefits from performance mods (or the benefits would be drastically reduced).
The factory programs their vehicles to run on the lean side for emissions reasons, but the general "Hot Rod" opinion is that more fuel is more power (there's way more to it then that, but that's another story).
For example, the optimum air fuel ratio is 14:1 (14 parts of air to 1 part fuel). The factory knows that to achieve this, the fuel injectors must run at "X" amount of pressure for "X" amount of time. That is what they will program your ECM to deliver in open loop mode (not reading off the sensors).
Now lets say that you install a K&N air filter which will flow 30% more air then the stock filter. In open loop mode, your ECM will still deliver the same amount of fuel to the injectors as it would for the stock filter. Since this would "lean" out your engine's mixture, you'd get better mileage because you'd be getting a lot more air but the "stock" amount of fuel. Relatively speaking, you would have just leaned out something that was already running lean and therefore performance would suffer greatly (assuming you believe more fuel is more power).
Now lets say you perform the same modification above, only this time you have a fully operational set of engine sensors ( Primarily the Oxygen Sensor). As you drive your car, the oxygen sensor reads how much un- used fuel is in your exhaust, and it reports this information to the ECM. Since you'd be running very lean, the sensors would tell the ECM that the fuel ratio was no longer 14:1 and that injectors needed a lot more fuel to correct the problem. The ECM would then increase the amount of fuel being fed to the engine in order to re- achieve 14:1. Now you'd have the optimum air fuel mixture WITH the benefits of increased flow. As a result, you just increased efficiency, and that's how you make horsepower.
This is why I wont just delete or turn off the codes!
The 1153 and 1154 engine code mean insufficient heat to the front oxygen sensors. LS1 sensors have a heater in them because they will NOT work unless they're hot. If they don't get hot enough, the car stays in open loop mode. Any increase in exhaust flow (bigger pipes, headers, mufflers) will greatly reduce your exhaust temperature, as a result the sensors don't stay hot enough to remain on (at least that's what happens to those of us who suffer from this issue).
Please remember that this whole scenario is the general idea of the situation. Hot Rodders have been arguing torq against rpm and Ford against Chevy since the dawn of time. I say this because I'm sure many people who read this will want to cry and whine about the contents. Well, they're welcome to. This isn't a Hot Rodders perspective, it's a scientists perspective. I wrote this to help an unfortunate fellow LS1 enthusiast because I give a **** and I miss the old days when people helped each other, not because I have nothing better to do then argue about spelling or grammer. If you disagree with my logic, I respect it, but I don't want to hear about it.
Email me and I'll tell you how the light finally went off! I can't post it because I'm also superstitious!
Okay, so you have me curious. How did you get rid of your stubborn code? I'm having trouble thinking of something you didn't change.
Something like changing brands of gas?
You NAILED it!
I don't know how old your sensors are or what mods you have done, so you can assume that every cars situation and solution will vary a bit.
Here's the short version of my case:
After 6 or 7 new sensors (including the corvette ones that "supposedly" solve the problem but didn't), 2 different cat configurations, a new exhaust, 2 different mufflers, 2 different tail pipes and tips, exhaust heat wrap tape, new bosch platinum plugs with 9mm MSD wires, a custom pcv filter and oil catch can, three cans of the best throttle body cleaner available, countless cleanings of my K&N air filter, who knows how many bottles of fuel injector cleaner, I rebuilt the exhaust several times checking for leaks, cleaned the Mass Air Sensor several times, tried 2 different air boxes and tubing, and checked every wire several times. After a more then a year, countless hours of labor, and well over a thousand dollars, THE LIGHT NEVER WENT OFF!
I refused to just "turn off" or "delete" the codes because I knew my ECM would stay in open loop mode if I did, and as a result, mileage and performance would greatly suffer.
An open-loop controller does not use feedback to control states or outputs of a dynamic system. Open-loop control is used for systems that are sufficiently well characterized to predict what inputs are necessary to achieve the desired states or outputs.
In open loop mode, your engine runs off the factory program and NOT your specific conditions. Since the factory program is designed to run a STOCK LS1, you would not receive any benefits from performance mods (or the benefits would be drastically reduced).
The factory programs their vehicles to run on the lean side for emissions reasons, but the general "Hot Rod" opinion is that more fuel is more power (there's way more to it then that, but that's another story).
For example, the optimum air fuel ratio is 14:1 (14 parts of air to 1 part fuel). The factory knows that to achieve this, the fuel injectors must run at "X" amount of pressure for "X" amount of time. That is what they will program your ECM to deliver in open loop mode (not reading off the sensors).
Now lets say that you install a K&N air filter which will flow 30% more air then the stock filter. In open loop mode, your ECM will still deliver the same amount of fuel to the injectors as it would for the stock filter. Since this would "lean" out your engine's mixture, you'd get better mileage because you'd be getting a lot more air but the "stock" amount of fuel. Relatively speaking, you would have just leaned out something that was already running lean and therefore performance would suffer greatly (assuming you believe more fuel is more power).
Now lets say you perform the same modification above, only this time you have a fully operational set of engine sensors ( Primarily the Oxygen Sensor). As you drive your car, the oxygen sensor reads how much un- used fuel is in your exhaust, and it reports this information to the ECM. Since you'd be running very lean, the sensors would tell the ECM that the fuel ratio was no longer 14:1 and that injectors needed a lot more fuel to correct the problem. The ECM would then increase the amount of fuel being fed to the engine in order to re- achieve 14:1. Now you'd have the optimum air fuel mixture WITH the benefits of increased flow. As a result, you just increased efficiency, and that's how you make horsepower.
This is why I wont just delete or turn off the codes!
The 1153 and 1154 engine code mean insufficient heat to the front oxygen sensors. LS1 sensors have a heater in them because they will NOT work unless they're hot. If they don't get hot enough, the car stays in open loop mode. Any increase in exhaust flow (bigger pipes, headers, mufflers) will greatly reduce your exhaust temperature, as a result the sensors don't stay hot enough to remain on (at least that's what happens to those of us who suffer from this issue).
Please remember that this whole scenario is the general idea of the situation. Hot Rodders have been arguing torq against rpm and Ford against Chevy since the dawn of time. I say this because I'm sure many people who read this will want to cry and whine about the contents. Well, they're welcome to. This isn't a Hot Rodders perspective, it's a scientists perspective. I wrote this to help an unfortunate fellow LS1 enthusiast because I give a **** and I miss the old days when people helped each other, not because I have nothing better to do then argue about spelling or grammer. If you disagree with my logic, I respect it, but I don't want to hear about it.
Email me and I'll tell you how the light finally went off! I can't post it because I'm also superstitious!
Okay, so you have me curious. How did you get rid of your stubborn code? I'm having trouble thinking of something you didn't change.
Something like changing brands of gas?You NAILED it!
12-17-2005, 06:26 AM
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Important O2 sensor info! Quote
"I bought the car used and it is a stock car except for a K&n filter that was on it when I bought it. The car has 102000 miles and it has fairly new cats on it since I was getting codes 0420 0430 which haven’t showed up any more. I had code 1133 so I replaced driver side o2 and reset the light. Half day later it came back on but with 1153 for passenger side."
That's a different story. As I said earlier, every car with vary a bit. While so many of us are having this problem do to performance mods, you may be one of the cases who actually are just experiencing "Routine Maintainence".
As you stated, you replaced the drivers side O2 sensor. With that kind of mileage, it was probably just time to chage it. If your new code is for the passenger side, then that one is probably just ready to be replaced as well.
O2 sensors are like spark plugs, they do wear out over time so it makes good sense to replace them in pairs. Especially with the price of gas right now.
HOWEVER..........
Even though I spent more then 6 months searching the web for the solution to my problem, I recently found some very useful information that I hadnt previously seen. If any one else has seen it, let me know where, I am curious as to how I missed it.
As I stated before, the O2 sensors in our cars are heated. This "heater" is electric and like anything electric requires a power wire and a ground.
While there IS a power wire in the O2 sensor wire harness, there is NO ground wire! The system and circuit rely on the metal to metal contact of the sensor to act as a ground.
This means that the ground of the heater circuit is achievied when the body of the sensor comes in contact with the exhaust pipe. In turn, that grounds to the manifold, the manifold grounds to the head, the head grounds to the block, the block grounds to the body, the body grounds to the chassis, the chassis grounds to the battery! The knee bone's connected to the shin bone (I couldnt help myself).
That's an aweful long path for a puny 12 volts to travel, and it gets worse. First off, there are several different metals involved here. Although the exhaust and manifolds are steel/ iron, the block and heads are aluminum. Steel and aluminum do not conduct heat or electricity the same at all.
Second, all of these joints have gaskets and gaskets dont conduct electricity at all (usually). As a result, several of the joints only contact each other through the bolts used to fasten them (the exhaust manifold doesnt actually touch the head because of the gasket, only the bolts do). Consiquently,,,
Third, most of us use anti seize lubricant on the exhaust bolts AND O2 sensors so that they dont get locked in with rust. Anti sieze lubricant is just that,, a lubricant. Lubricants either dont conduct electricity or dont do it well.
Fourth and final, everything here is usually covered in rust and for some reason, rust does NOT conduct electricity. I'm a welder and you cannot electronically (MIG, TIG) weld rusty metal without first grinding off all the rust.
What all this means is that the heater circuit will not function without a good ground and do to a design flaw, it may not have a good one.
GM released a LITTLE KNOWN tech bulletin instructing their mechanics to weld a tab onto both exhaust sides near the O2 sensors. Then to screw a ground strap onto it and connect it to the chassis!
I found this out about 3 weeks ago, but never heard or saw it before. Later today I'll post all my cars' specs so that readers may make a comparisson to their situations.
"I bought the car used and it is a stock car except for a K&n filter that was on it when I bought it. The car has 102000 miles and it has fairly new cats on it since I was getting codes 0420 0430 which haven’t showed up any more. I had code 1133 so I replaced driver side o2 and reset the light. Half day later it came back on but with 1153 for passenger side."
That's a different story. As I said earlier, every car with vary a bit. While so many of us are having this problem do to performance mods, you may be one of the cases who actually are just experiencing "Routine Maintainence".
As you stated, you replaced the drivers side O2 sensor. With that kind of mileage, it was probably just time to chage it. If your new code is for the passenger side, then that one is probably just ready to be replaced as well.
O2 sensors are like spark plugs, they do wear out over time so it makes good sense to replace them in pairs. Especially with the price of gas right now.
HOWEVER..........
Even though I spent more then 6 months searching the web for the solution to my problem, I recently found some very useful information that I hadnt previously seen. If any one else has seen it, let me know where, I am curious as to how I missed it.
As I stated before, the O2 sensors in our cars are heated. This "heater" is electric and like anything electric requires a power wire and a ground.
While there IS a power wire in the O2 sensor wire harness, there is NO ground wire! The system and circuit rely on the metal to metal contact of the sensor to act as a ground.
This means that the ground of the heater circuit is achievied when the body of the sensor comes in contact with the exhaust pipe. In turn, that grounds to the manifold, the manifold grounds to the head, the head grounds to the block, the block grounds to the body, the body grounds to the chassis, the chassis grounds to the battery! The knee bone's connected to the shin bone (I couldnt help myself).
That's an aweful long path for a puny 12 volts to travel, and it gets worse. First off, there are several different metals involved here. Although the exhaust and manifolds are steel/ iron, the block and heads are aluminum. Steel and aluminum do not conduct heat or electricity the same at all.
Second, all of these joints have gaskets and gaskets dont conduct electricity at all (usually). As a result, several of the joints only contact each other through the bolts used to fasten them (the exhaust manifold doesnt actually touch the head because of the gasket, only the bolts do). Consiquently,,,
Third, most of us use anti seize lubricant on the exhaust bolts AND O2 sensors so that they dont get locked in with rust. Anti sieze lubricant is just that,, a lubricant. Lubricants either dont conduct electricity or dont do it well.
Fourth and final, everything here is usually covered in rust and for some reason, rust does NOT conduct electricity. I'm a welder and you cannot electronically (MIG, TIG) weld rusty metal without first grinding off all the rust.
What all this means is that the heater circuit will not function without a good ground and do to a design flaw, it may not have a good one.
GM released a LITTLE KNOWN tech bulletin instructing their mechanics to weld a tab onto both exhaust sides near the O2 sensors. Then to screw a ground strap onto it and connect it to the chassis!
I found this out about 3 weeks ago, but never heard or saw it before. Later today I'll post all my cars' specs so that readers may make a comparisson to their situations.
12-17-2005, 01:14 PM
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I know I understand that GM did include a ground on many applications, that doesnt mean it worked well. They also mounted the PCV valve horizontally and that idea sucked. In any event, they issued a ground strap bulletin for cars with 1133 & 1153 codes. Besides that, after the suffering I went through trying to ditch that code, if someone told me crazy gluing a chipmunks eyebrow to my alternator would fix it, I'd try it!
06-22-2006, 12:25 PM
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wow great article mr darkness!!, i have a 2001 LS! w/23g's, i am getting the 1153 code o2 sensor passeger side , i really havent worried about it too much except for the fact that you said aftermarket mods will affect the heat, this is my problem, i like i said just bought the car , it has k&n air filter, slp headers , i am fiking to go to az and have them check the code again, i wonder if the person who put these mods on compensated for the leaner fuel mixture as aresult of the cooller running headers & k&nair filter, i am getting 21-23mpg, i have run it a little hard and think that the changing of both gas ,i run 93 oct.,and driving conditions may have affected it , i figure i will wait another week and run a couple more tanks of gas through it,....your info is great thanks!i am definately going to consider the whole grounding thought here , something to think about for sure!!
01-31-2008, 09:31 PM
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question Going through this right now.....So your telling me that the ground addition to the exhaust should take care of the "o2 heating problem"......Please email me back with some suggestions...
98 Camaro SS
Flowtech 1 5/8" headers
3in ORY
Rear O2 sims
LS1 motorsports carbon lid
flowmaster CB....
Just a basic rundown, please help.....
98 Camaro SS
Flowtech 1 5/8" headers
3in ORY
Rear O2 sims
LS1 motorsports carbon lid
flowmaster CB....
Just a basic rundown, please help.....
