PCM Diagnostics & Tuning HP Tuners | Holley | Diablo
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

RAF tables ?

Old 01-11-2006, 08:24 AM
  #1  
TECH Junkie
Thread Starter
iTrader: (50)
 
oange ss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,229
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 4 Posts

Default RAF tables ?

i kinda have an idea of what it's for but what exactly do the numbers mean ? Are they airflow adders to VE ?
Old 01-11-2006, 09:13 AM
  #2  
TECH Regular
iTrader: (1)
 
Dixit's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Canton GA
Posts: 434
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Default

Its the Desired Idle Airflow value. To tune this simply scan the Desired Idle Airflow value from cold start to warmed up (with AC off and both fans off) and then paste those values into your RAF. More tweaking can be done later by looking at the LTIT/STIT values to fine tune the RAF.

Dixit
Old 01-11-2006, 09:41 AM
  #3  
TECH Junkie
Thread Starter
iTrader: (50)
 
oange ss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,229
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 4 Posts

Default

the numders indicate desired airflow ? in what measurement ?
Old 01-11-2006, 09:41 AM
  #4  
TECH Regular
iTrader: (1)
 
Dixit's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Canton GA
Posts: 434
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Default

They are in g/sec
Old 01-11-2006, 10:39 AM
  #5  
TECH Fanatic
 
ringram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Sunny London, UK
Posts: 1,690
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Default

Do you mean scan dynamic, if you scan desired it will be the same as it is now...!?
Old 01-11-2006, 11:22 AM
  #6  
TECH Junkie
Thread Starter
iTrader: (50)
 
oange ss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,229
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 4 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by Dixit
They are in g/sec

is it an adder table or used independantly ?
Old 01-11-2006, 11:25 AM
  #7  
TECH Regular
iTrader: (1)
 
Dixit's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Canton GA
Posts: 434
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Default

This is not an adder table, this is used to get the base running airflow for idle, this is used in idle learning and maintaining idle.

The adder tables would be stuff like startup initial and friction initial.
Old 01-11-2006, 11:26 AM
  #8  
TECH Regular
iTrader: (1)
 
Dixit's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Canton GA
Posts: 434
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by ringram
Do you mean scan dynamic, if you scan desired it will be the same as it is now...!?
No, Dynamic Airflow is not the same as Desired Idle Airflow, however if your IAC/ETC scaler is in inline then those two PIDs will show almost idential values.

But to tweak the RAF table you need to simply just look at Desired Idle Airflow.
Old 01-11-2006, 12:01 PM
  #9  
TECH Junkie
Thread Starter
iTrader: (50)
 
oange ss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,229
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 4 Posts

Default

dynamic-desired = correction to RAF table ?
Old 01-11-2006, 12:14 PM
  #10  
TECH Regular
iTrader: (1)
 
Dixit's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Canton GA
Posts: 434
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Default

No no, leave Dynamic out of this discussion. Dynamic is used when you have a ETC TB scaler value inline with Desired Idle Airflow. Im not 100% sure how they do it on Fbodys. But to tune the RAF, you simple do nothing but scan the Desired Idle Airflow and use those values. And use LTIT/STIT to do fine tuning/tweaking.

Dixit
Old 01-11-2006, 12:17 PM
  #11  
TECH Junkie
Thread Starter
iTrader: (50)
 
oange ss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,229
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 4 Posts

Default

desired is what the PCM wants to see, so it's not goin to be a realtime airflow reading right ?
Old 01-11-2006, 01:30 PM
  #12  
TECH Regular
iTrader: (1)
 
Dixit's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Canton GA
Posts: 434
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Default

First off, all PIDs scanned are realtime.

Secondly here is a clear understand of how idle operation works and what Desired Idle is. Its a long read but will give you a clear understanding. Taken from the FAQ here at this thread. https://ls1tech.com/forums/pcm-diagnostics-tuning/193103-idle-operation-part-1-a.html
Idle Airflow Operation


General Operation
The PCM calculates the IAC position based on a number of Airflow calculations and estimations, the final idle airflow value consists of the following two main components:
- Base Idle Airflow (Base + LTIT)
- Adaptive Airflow correction (STIT)

LTIT = Long Term Idle Trim
STIT = Short Term Idle Trim

Note: i just made these names up cos they are easier to understand than proportional blah blah, integrator slow filtered idle airflow...

The first thing to realise is that the PCM only runs the adaptive idle control routines when at idle conditions (below certain TPS and MPH limits). However, the base airflow routine is controlling the IAC position during all driving conditions (things you are aware of already, such as the Throttle Cracker, and if you set your Base Running Airflow values too high you get cruise control etc.)

Base Idle Airflow
The Base Idle Airflow is combination of looked up values from various tables within the PCM and also incorporates a Long Term Idle Trim (LTIT) correction. This airflow directly controls the IAC position when at non-idle and is the "starting point" for adaptive idle control. The base airflow consists of the sum of the following individual components:

Base Running Airflow
- this is the main Idle Airflow when in PN (A4 only) or Gear (A4 or M6)
- a table vs ECT

Startup Airflow
- additional airflow during engine startup and initial run period (decays to zero in the first few seconds of engine operation)
- a table and a few delays and decay rates

Startup Spark Retard Airflow
- airflow correction to account for startup spark retard (if used)

Fans On Airflow
- Additional airflow to account for increased engine load during cooling fan operation
- Two values depedending if one fan active or both active.

DFCO Airflow
- used to set IAC position during DFCO

Throttle Cracker Airflow
- additional airflow to open the IAC based on MPH and RPM
- zero duing idle conditions
- a table

Throttle Follower Airflow
- controls rate of closing the IAC valve during throttle closure
- zero during idle conditions
- a few tables of initial value and decay rates

Long Term Idle Trim Airflow (LTIT)
- a slow moving correction based on the adaptive idle routines (think LTFT's for fuel)
- the idea of this correction is to bring the Short Term Idle Trims (STIT) to zero
- it has +ve and -ve limits
- a calculated value

AC Airflow
- airflow correction for when the AC is on, this is a torque based calculation that estimates how much torque the AC is pulling and calculates an airflow correction to compensate.

IAC Park Airflow
- airflow used to calculate IAC position when ignition is off and engine not running
- used in place of all of the ablove
- a table

The combination of all these components is what i call the Base Idle Airflow in grams/sec.


Adaptive Idle Control
The whole point of the idle control routines is to maintain the desired Idle RPM. The PCM therefore needs to "close the loop" and use the Idle RPM error as a feedback to provide this control. The monitoring of the Idle RPM results in a Short Term Idle Trim (STIT) that provides the fast moving closed loop control of the IAC valve. Again here it is very analagous to the STFT's and feedback from the O2 sensors. Thats why i chose these names rather than the normal Proportional, Integral, Derivate stuff that makes most peoples head spin...

Okay, so the PCM has a Desired Idle RPM it is trying to achieve and it is constantly measuring the current RPM and calculating an Idle RPM error value. The PCM uses various agressive and not so agressive algorithms to control the STIT, to provide fast convergence (and also stall saver capability) but also reasonable idle stability.

During all this, the PCM is maintaining a fairly complex state machine of are we at idle, is the engine transitioning back to idle, etc. The PCM does remember a few different last known state of the STIT, such as when you turn the AC on the PCM stops updating the "ACoff STIT" and starts updating the "ACon STIT" (again here think Fuel Trim cells). The idea of this is that when you turn the AC off the PCM can quickly return to the original IAC operating point. For A4 vehicles you also have the PN/Gear dimension as well.

A good example of the STIT in action is if you have an M6, you have your foot on the brake and you partially let the clutch out and you feel the engine pull harder to try and maintain the desired idle RPM. If you were logging the IAC steps or the desired idle airflow you would see it increase. Very soon with our scanner you will be able to log the LTIT and STITs directly and see them correcting. Monitoring the LTIT and STIT is a very good tool to get your Base Running Airflow values correct, ensuring your LTITs are not maxing out on the limits and troubeshooting PN/Gear and Fan On/Off stumble etc. especially after head/cam install.


Desired Idle Airflow
So the net result, is that the PCM takes the Base Idle Airflow (including LTIT) and then adds the STIT to come up with a final Desired Idle Airflow (which generally is available as a PID for logging). Then there is a final step that takes this airflow value and translates it to the actual IAC valve position or the ETC TPS position. Maybe more on this later, but it's basically just a units transformation for the most part and the IAC and the ETC have their own control routines and state machines that effectively take this idle airflow as an input.


What else?
In addition to the Idle Airflow routines the PCM also has an RPM based idle spark correction "closed loop" operation that it uses to control the idle RPM. Since the spark advance can move much faster than the IAC, it can provide very fine control of idle speed. When logging you will see this as a jagged spark advance chart, most noticable with cams at lower idle RPMs where the spark advance generally oscillates between it's min/max allowed values as the engine "cams" at idle.
Old 01-11-2006, 01:48 PM
  #13  
TECH Junkie
Thread Starter
iTrader: (50)
 
oange ss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,229
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 4 Posts

Default

that's what i was lookin for, thanx
Old 01-05-2008, 06:56 PM
  #14  
Registered User
 
colamotas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Al.
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Could you set the adaptive idel routine threshold so high that it would always use those parmeters to control the idle?

Then what is next after you log the desired idle airflow and copy paste to the editor, if the hanging idle still persist?

Last edited by colamotas; 01-05-2008 at 08:20 PM.
Old 01-06-2008, 09:59 AM
  #15  
On The Tree
iTrader: (1)
 
molson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

I'd do it a couple of times and if the idle is still hanging look @ your throttle cracker/follower tables.
Old 01-06-2008, 11:28 AM
  #16  
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (25)
 
shoemike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Prescott, AZ
Posts: 1,283
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts

Default

http://forum.efilive.com/showpost.ph...54&postcount=4


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:35 PM.