McRat

I'm getting ready to "adjust" my stock car with LS1Edit. Hopefully it comes tomorrow.

As I search the boards, there is very limited info on what people are running.

Is there another board with more info? Are people "holding back" on us? I've always posted any info I had about any mod's I've ever done, and even went through alot of trouble dyno'g certain mod's just to post data on them.

I'll post anything I learn/test with programming changes, always have. Why are people keeping quiet about this?

McRat

Hmmm...

So I guess the answer is that setting the timing and jetting is "top secret". Funny, I can pick up any magazine off the shelf and they'll tell me what they run on any other car built. I get the same response on other forums as well.

Oh well. I always thought it was us (Chevy Guys) against them (Everything Else), but it's more like us against us.

For you "Tuners" out there. You have little to fear from lost business from talking about tuning. 95% of the guys who want to tune their cars would rather have someone do it. And the 5% that will tune their own cars will do it anyways. It'll just take them longer without shared info.

And yes, Tuners will be helped by shared info also. You wouldn't believe some crap I've been told by Tuners. "Torque Management affects 6 sp cars", "Putting bigger injectors on a stock car increases HP", "31 deg of timing across the board makes the best HP on a stock car", "Stock timing is fine, just lean the car out across the board", "a GMAF or a K&N is worth 20 HP".

The only custom tuning I ever bought (decline to name, as this isn't a pissing contest) took 3 tries to get 0.3hp gain.

Patman

Pat, this might get more responses in the computer section of the board, so I'll move it there for you.

Zangel

iTrader: (11)

Have you tried the LS1edit mailing list? You can find out more info at www.ls1edit.com or email brian@houston-f-body.org to get you setup. Hope that helps!

ChrisB

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
As I search the boards, there is very limited info on what people are running.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

You think it could be because it's a relatively new product which operates on a very complected FI setup - one of which none of the algorithms, etc. are known for?
Or you think a conspiracy is more likely?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
Why are people keeping quiet about this?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

And you think they are because.... (I see tons of posts here).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
So I guess the answer is that setting the timing and jetting is "top secret".
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

Have you thought the problem might be the way you are asking the question? "What should I set my timing to?" - that question just doesn't work. If you look at the stock pcm it is scaled vs. gm/sec and rpm. If you asked "what is your timing at wot", or better yet - what is your timing at 0.6g/sec at 5500 the question would be much more answerable - the problem is it still depends on the setup, gas quality, weather conditions, etc.
As for "jetting" - again, asking that is a terminology problem. You can ask people what they set there PE vs RPM to - but the values in there will be relative to their MAF scaling - which will be relative to their maf setup, induction type, etc.

The problem is there are no magic values, etc. - anyone who gives you one is wrong by default.


As for the rest of your tirade - are you hoping to get help like this? So if you wanted, say, a mechanic to let you know his tips and tricks for doing a motor swap you would

a) berate him, tell him he is being foolish, and that he will fail anyway
b) ask for his help

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">So I guess the answer is that setting the timing and jetting is "top secret". Funny, I can pick up any magazine off the shelf and they'll tell me what they run on any other car built. I get the same response on other forums as well.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

If you get all the information you need from magazines and other forums then why are you wasting your time here? If you let everything on the internet annoy you so you are going to have a tough life.

To be clear: I don't have anything against you, etc. - I just take offense at this post and the way you underhandedly accuse everyone who doesn't respond to your wishes of doing something wrong/evil.
The worst part is you don't even ask a question, you just start out accusing everyone of holding back, etc.
I don't think you are a troll, but I would submit this is a very "trollish" type of strategy.

As for information on tuning, etc. I put together a somewhat comprehensive site to get people started

http://ls1edit.slowcar.net

I would suggest if you have a question about something in particular you ask a question, instead of berating everyone (whom you are trying to get to help you).

As for the pro tuners, I think it is unrealistic to expect people like Ed Wright, Ron Zimmer, Mike Licht, etc. to come here and answer questions - their time is money and I will guarauntee they are very busy - what would be their motivation to spend there free time here dealing with the same thing they do every day for a living? The fact that some of the above (Mike Licht) actually do post here and answer questions from time to time I think is phenomenal - but it is definitely not something to expect.

For information to get out people are going to have to look for answers themselves - don't be afraid to experiment.

Chris Bennight

<small>[ August 19, 2002, 02:22 PM: Message edited by: ChrisB ]</small>

Predator

I share your frustration, and even though I know what you're saying is true (about pro tuners not losing business by sharing info), I still think they're paranoid about losing customers. A lot of us self tuners are hesitant of saying anything until we have things down pat. I have some ideas about tuning with LS1 Edit, but I'll keep them to myself until I'm sure it's worth sharing. As you know, LS1 Edit is still a new product, and eventually us amateurs will figure everything out and share the info. Hang in there dude! Think of it as a long term study, or project.

McRat

Chris, I wasn't aiming this post at you. You are one of the few people who ARE posting technical data. I appreciate it a BUNCH!!! Please don't think I'm slamming the guys who ARE sharing.

Yes, I have done seaches on at least 4 boards for information. I haven't asked many questions I will admit. But most seaches come up empty. If I search for info on other new products, I get alot more data.

I posted this on this board because this is where most of the real hardcore LS1/LS6 guys hang out, so I thought I'd get some real input.

I just subscribed to the newsletter, so I hope that helps.

It seems to me that most intense discussions of this product were when it was first released, then it tapered off.

The "magazines" I'm talking about are aimed at other cars. As you know, there isn't alot of magazines that cover LS1/LS6 engine building. So we must rely on boards such as this.

This is not a flame. It's an observation. If my opinion is wrong, so be it. I will post anything I test on the boards, and I hope everyone else who can does too.

Again Chris, thanks for being a "good guy"...

Now... Which Airlid is the Best??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

<img border="0" alt="[fight]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_punch.gif" />

PewterZ28

iTrader: (1)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by McRat:
<strong>I just subscribed to the newsletter, so I hope that helps. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sorry to say, but IMO it's lame. I've been subscribed for almost 2 weeks now and I haven't picked up a single thing that I can use. Most of the time they're talking about the next release of Edit(which is good to see that it is improving), or very vaguely talking about injector sizes and such. Nothing user friendly about WOT tuning such as which tables to change and why, or how to use autotap in conjunction with Edit, etc. It's as if the ones who are talking are the ones who know quite a bit, and they don't need to talk in user friendly terms with user friendly explanations. Maybe they don't realize how little some of us know. Or maybe it would be like us having to constantly answer a newbies question, like which air lid is the best? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" /> J/K

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><strong>
Now... Which Airlid is the Best??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The Direct-Flo, of course. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

Derrick <img border="0" alt="[angel]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_angel.gif" />

ChrisB

Point taken - I just don't think that the tone of the post was the best choice - the same exact scenario happened when LT1 Edit first came out.

The problem is that there *is* a lack of information - it's not from anyone trying to hide it, etc. - it's that it is simply not there. People need to take the time to put it out there. Again, it was the same way with LT1 Edit when it came out - not much until a few people really started digging into it and posting some good information, getting discussion started, etc.

The LS1 Pcm is MUCH more complicated - and though the market is already pretty big there aren't very many people who seem willing/able to really dig down into it. Until people start experimenting and working with it not much is going to happen.

Chris

ToplessTexan

I hope people read, and then reread Chris' last post about 20 times.

Useful factual information will only come from experimentation and all too often opinions and speculation are offered in its place. Performing such experimentation and reporting it requires that one knows how to do both and is willing to invest the effort to do both.

Personally, I usually get a kick out of experimenting but I'm becoming increasingly convinced that sharing results in places like this has little return on investment, generally being more trouble than it's worth. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" />

McRat

YEs, it is a hassle to post test results. I tested several products in the past, and tried to be fair and objective, and spent a few hundred dollars of dyno time and posted lots of AutoTaps.

About 1/3 the responses were "You didn't test it right, you were biased, my K&N made 50hp so your car sucks, etc.

I still posted. As I go to the dyno today, I will post results from changing the timing on a stock LS6 engine. It will cost time and money, I'll catch flames for my trouble, and I'll STILL do it.

I hope others do the same.