How is a car PROPERLY tuned??
Originally Posted by hurley711
OK then let me rephrase the Q.....Can I get a good solid tune if someone uses the LS1edit program on my car? Plan would be to tune it after cam install, run it on a dyno to check A/F and wideband, then retune to tweek the initial tune. Would this be alright and give me a good solid tune?
Yes sir it would just fine to calibrate your ECU with after a camshaft installation.
Chris Macellaro
Originally Posted by hurley711
OK then let me rephrase the Q.....Can I get a good solid tune if someone uses the LS1edit program on my car? Plan would be to tune it after cam install, run it on a dyno to check A/F and wideband, then retune to tweek the initial tune. Would this be alright and give me a good solid tune?
I work at a shop that used LS1 Edit when I started tuning there - I quickly changed that to EFILive FlashScan with a wideband to tune each car from idle to WOT and the tunes are far and above the old way of doing things. I have retuned several cars that were done originally with the old way and the customers can't get over how much better the car is from idle on up. Do it right and you won't regret it!
Originally Posted by BLK02WS6
You can get an alright tune with LS1 Edit if the user knows what they are doing - but you won't get a really good tune because there is no way to integrate a wideband into the tuning process with LS1 Edit. Using a wideband to tune WOT on the dyno will make it safe at WOT, but won't give you near the tune you can get using a wideband through the whole tune.
I work at a shop that used LS1 Edit when I started tuning there - I quickly changed that to EFILive FlashScan with a wideband to tune each car from idle to WOT and the tunes are far and above the old way of doing things. I have retuned several cars that were done originally with the old way and the customers can't get over how much better the car is from idle on up. Do it right and you won't regret it!
I work at a shop that used LS1 Edit when I started tuning there - I quickly changed that to EFILive FlashScan with a wideband to tune each car from idle to WOT and the tunes are far and above the old way of doing things. I have retuned several cars that were done originally with the old way and the customers can't get over how much better the car is from idle on up. Do it right and you won't regret it!
Not to start a debate or conflict friend...just sharing information though
I respectfully disagree with your opinion on wideband integration as my opinion is this:
When I have a vehicle on the dyno I always use the information from the dyno's wideband unless I feel reason to doubt its displayed information. Yes the difference you will see from on dyno to out on the street information about the A/F's will normally be of a small difference. My point is in my opinion I put more trust in a wideband that I use several times a week and know the validity of the readings than a different unit in every car.
If I get a FAST, BS3, Gen7, Haltech or a Greddy Emanage or any other system I always use the wideband data to tune with (again unless I have reason to disbelieve the sensor information).
Chris Macellaro
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Originally Posted by macsperformance
Not to start a debate or conflict friend...just sharing information though
I respectfully disagree with your opinion on wideband integration as my opinion is this:
When I have a vehicle on the dyno I always use the information from the dyno's wideband unless I feel reason to doubt its displayed information. Yes the difference you will see from on dyno to out on the street information about the A/F's will normally be of a small difference. My point is in my opinion I put more trust in a wideband that I use several times a week and know the validity of the readings than a different unit in every car.
If I get a FAST, BS3, Gen7, Haltech or a Greddy Emanage or any other system I always use the wideband data to tune with (again unless I have reason to disbelieve the sensor information).
Chris Macellaro
I respectfully disagree with your opinion on wideband integration as my opinion is this:
When I have a vehicle on the dyno I always use the information from the dyno's wideband unless I feel reason to doubt its displayed information. Yes the difference you will see from on dyno to out on the street information about the A/F's will normally be of a small difference. My point is in my opinion I put more trust in a wideband that I use several times a week and know the validity of the readings than a different unit in every car.
If I get a FAST, BS3, Gen7, Haltech or a Greddy Emanage or any other system I always use the wideband data to tune with (again unless I have reason to disbelieve the sensor information).
Chris Macellaro
Originally Posted by macsperformance
Not to start a debate or conflict friend...just sharing information though
I respectfully disagree with your opinion on wideband integration as my opinion is this:
When I have a vehicle on the dyno I always use the information from the dyno's wideband unless I feel reason to doubt its displayed information. Yes the difference you will see from on dyno to out on the street information about the A/F's will normally be of a small difference. My point is in my opinion I put more trust in a wideband that I use several times a week and know the validity of the readings than a different unit in every car.
If I get a FAST, BS3, Gen7, Haltech or a Greddy Emanage or any other system I always use the wideband data to tune with (again unless I have reason to disbelieve the sensor information).
Chris Macellaro
I respectfully disagree with your opinion on wideband integration as my opinion is this:
When I have a vehicle on the dyno I always use the information from the dyno's wideband unless I feel reason to doubt its displayed information. Yes the difference you will see from on dyno to out on the street information about the A/F's will normally be of a small difference. My point is in my opinion I put more trust in a wideband that I use several times a week and know the validity of the readings than a different unit in every car.
If I get a FAST, BS3, Gen7, Haltech or a Greddy Emanage or any other system I always use the wideband data to tune with (again unless I have reason to disbelieve the sensor information).
Chris Macellaro
Also, I use the same wideband too - I weld a bung in each car and use my portable wideband that integrates into my laptop/tuning software. So I can calibrate the wideband each time I use it and maintain/replace the sensor as needed.
Last edited by BLK02WS6; Jan 22, 2006 at 08:18 PM.
Originally Posted by Bink
Chris - are you tuning with an Eddy Current/Load dyno?
Yes that is what I prefer to tune with. On WOT stuff I will on occasion use an inertia based dyno if that is what a customer wants. I meant to state that in my above post sorry friend.
Chris Macellaro
Originally Posted by BLK02WS6
I think you are missing my point. What I meant was that with the wideband integrated into the software, you are using a wideband to tune each and every cell in every table you work on (VE, MAF, etc). The overall tune is much more accurate and the idle, throttle response, driveability and gas mileage will all be greatly improved. You just cannot get that kind of tune using the dyno wideband to tune only the WOT areas of the tables.
Also, I use the same wideband too - I weld a bung in each car and use my portable wideband that integrates into my laptop/tuning software. So I can calibrate the wideband each time I use it and maintain/replace the sensor as needed.
Also, I use the same wideband too - I weld a bung in each car and use my portable wideband that integrates into my laptop/tuning software. So I can calibrate the wideband each time I use it and maintain/replace the sensor as needed.
No friend I understand your point of view. But from the way I understand your post you are referring to an inertia based dyno talking about only being able to tune for WOT. The dynos I prefer to use can steady state load for all of the things you spoke about.
I am working on something to help educate people about load cell tuning on a dyno that is load bearing. As soon as I finish it I will post a link to a site that I am a vendor on so you can see the information and come to a conclusion about it for yourself.
Chris Macellaro
Last edited by macsperformance; Jan 22, 2006 at 09:14 PM.
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Originally Posted by macsperformance
Yes that is what I prefer to tune with. On WOT stuff I will on occasion use an inertia based dyno if that is what a customer wants. I meant to state that in my above post sorry friend.
Chris Macellaro
Chris Macellaro
Originally Posted by Alvin
I think you would be surpized if you compared the same wideband on the dyno as off the dyno. What a LC1 reports and what a dynojet wideband reports are 2 different things.
Originally Posted by hurley711
So LS1edit isn't gonna give me a real good tune then, I'll probably ending up getting it tuned again in the long run?
What people are saying is that once you get to be a good tuner the other tuning software packages are more capable, cheaper and easier to use.
By your questions, it is apparent that LS1Edit will work fine so long as your friend has some knowledge of what he is doing.
Kinda like asking if you should use a 34 or 36 oz bat. For a non baseball player either will do. When you get really good you will have a preference.
Perry
Originally Posted by joecar
Using HPTuners or EFILive and a wideband oxygen sensor (e.g. LC-1, PLX, Autronic, Tech Edge, etc...) you can perform an "automated" VE tune which is a very easy procedure and produces very good results.
Purchasing the above is money well spent, you'll learn about tuning, you'll be in control of your tune, and you'll wonder how you got by without.
Purchasing the above is money well spent, you'll learn about tuning, you'll be in control of your tune, and you'll wonder how you got by without.
Originally Posted by macsperformance
No friend I understand your point of view. But from the way I understand your post you are referring to an inertia based dyno talking about only being able to tune for WOT. The dynos I prefer to use can steady state load for all of the things you spoke about.
I am working on something to help educate people about load cell tuning on a dyno that is load bearing. As soon as I finish it I will post a link to a site that I am a vendor on so you can see the information and come to a conclusion about it for yourself.
Chris Macellaro
I am working on something to help educate people about load cell tuning on a dyno that is load bearing. As soon as I finish it I will post a link to a site that I am a vendor on so you can see the information and come to a conclusion about it for yourself.
Chris Macellaro
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From: So.Cal.
Originally Posted by ws6togo
I have EFILive flash and have been playing around in the tune area. Is the process for tuning the car really that easy with the wide O2. You make it sound like clicking a button on the screen and it tunes the car for you?
Install a WBO2, set up Auto VE tune mode, drive and log data, apply filters, paste with multiply.
It's not a single button, but it's not difficult.
Originally Posted by hurley711
OK then let me rephrase the Q.....Can I get a good solid tune if someone uses the LS1edit program on my car? Plan would be to tune it after cam install, run it on a dyno to check A/F and wideband, then retune to tweek the initial tune. Would this be alright and give me a good solid tune?
It might surprise alot of people here but not everyone want's to tune there own car
The problem is that alot of shops/tuner's rush you in/out with the tuning and collect the $$.Now,with LS1 Edit you can get a precise tune easilly enough.Probly not as straight forward as HPtuner's but it can be done.All my race/street cars get tuned on the street and never hit the roller's.The dyno is definitely not something to really go by if you want to go fast at the track
Also,a wideband is not necessary if you have the right scanner's knowledge about the setup's.Some cars like 14-1 A/F at WOT and some like 12-1 (NA of course).It all depends on the H/C being used.Right now I'm at the end of ussing Edit mostly due to the way our tuning is pointed.400-700rwhp cars are a thing of the past and now the setup's are hitting 800-1000+hp which we need 2-3 bar tuning capability.
EFILive is capable of doing the 2-3 bar tuning. Have you looked at it?? www.efilive.com
I am not an expert with it by any means but I know there are some out here that use it. I am still in the "newbie" stage with it. You can download the demo for free and get a feel for how it works.
I am not an expert with it by any means but I know there are some out here that use it. I am still in the "newbie" stage with it. You can download the demo for free and get a feel for how it works.
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From: So.Cal.
Originally Posted by Slowhawk
Also,a wideband is not necessary if you have the right scanner's knowledge about the setup's.Some cars like 14-1 A/F at WOT and some like 12-1 (NA of course).It all depends on the H/C being used.
Originally Posted by Slowhawk
It might surprise alot of people here but not everyone want's to tune there own car The problem is that alot of shops/tuner's rush you in/out with the tuning and collect the $$.
P.S. Nice purple kid's street rod, wish I has one when I was that young.
Wb02
Originally Posted by joecar
Have you seen the Auto VE Tutorial on the EFILive doc site...?
Install a WBO2, set up Auto VE tune mode, drive and log data, apply filters, paste with multiply.
It's not a single button, but it's not difficult.
Install a WBO2, set up Auto VE tune mode, drive and log data, apply filters, paste with multiply.
It's not a single button, but it's not difficult.
Last edited by ws6togo; Jan 24, 2006 at 02:10 PM. Reason: addition
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From: So.Cal.
Originally Posted by ws6togo
Which WB02 do you recommend ?? Looks pretty easy to install. but looks like it needs to have a display hooked to it to be able to see a/f output, or does it show on laptop? Referring to the LC-1
It's not difficult to install, the hardest part is routing the wires to inside the cabin, and that's not too hard; you need to read the instructions that come with and search LS1Tech for people's experiences.
You don't need a display unless you want one;
the wideband signal goes to the HPTuners or EFILive modules so that their software packages can log this signal, and then you create a histogram/map of the correction which you then "paste with multiply" into your VE table (of course you must first setup your tune for "Auto VE Tuning", i.e. SD open loop).