How is a car PROPERLY tuned??
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,080
Likes: 17
From: So.Cal.
Originally Posted by ws6togo
So as long as I have the Auto VE tuning done I can then do the WB02. Is there anything else that I should make sure is setup good before doing wideband?
the WBO2 tells you the actual AFR and the Auto VE tuning procedure uses this to correct the VE table.
Last edited by joecar; Jan 25, 2006 at 04:06 PM.
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,080
Likes: 17
From: So.Cal.
Steps:
1. Use the Spreadsheet to make sure the IFR table is correct.
2. Install WBO2.
3. Do Auto VE Tune, and apply correction to VE table.
4. While still in Auto VE Tune mode, log MAF freq data and create a new MAF table.
5. Use WBO2 to adjust PE.
6. Play with spark timing to see how much advance works for you without knocking.
7. Hmmm, what else...
You can run SD (no MAF) or MAF'ed.
Some people also like to run in OL.
1. Use the Spreadsheet to make sure the IFR table is correct.
2. Install WBO2.
3. Do Auto VE Tune, and apply correction to VE table.
4. While still in Auto VE Tune mode, log MAF freq data and create a new MAF table.
5. Use WBO2 to adjust PE.
6. Play with spark timing to see how much advance works for you without knocking.
7. Hmmm, what else...
You can run SD (no MAF) or MAF'ed.
Some people also like to run in OL.
Originally Posted by BLK02WS6
You can get an alright tune with LS1 Edit if the user knows what they are doing - but you won't get a really good tune because there is no way to integrate a wideband into the tuning process with LS1 Edit.
You can have all the tools in the world, but you have to know how to use them correctly to get the job done. The "easiest" tuning software to use sometimes gives the user a sense of over security sometimes I think
A car is properly tuned when it goes down the track making max power as reliably as the setup should be expected - and driveability is on par with what the customer is after.
I can do the same "really good tune" with LS1Edit that I did on ATVRacers car with what I normally use (HPTuner). It might take a few more iterations, but when done it would be just as consistant 9.7-10.0 car (how many heads/cam mild nitrous shot cars were as consistant as Waynes car? Track days where it made 8 passes within .04 hundreths)
Its more so the tuning tool behind the tuning tool that makes it happen
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,080
Likes: 17
From: So.Cal.
The person tuning has to know what they're doing, read alot, research the topics, understand the various interactions, but the right tool with the right features will make their job easier and quicker and allow them to verify and sanity check their work.
Just like any other tool, the skilled craftsman can create works of art, while the rest of us (me) practice alot.
Just like any other tool, the skilled craftsman can create works of art, while the rest of us (me) practice alot.
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,080
Likes: 17
From: So.Cal.
This means that the DIY (me) has to spend alot of time reading and experimenting and talking to people ("surround yourself with people smarter than yourself") and learning as much as possible;
and a good tool with good features helps the DIY, and a DIY tune is as good as the research put it and the amount of time spent logging on the street;
besides the Scan/Tune tool, another good tool is the WBO2, gives the DIY a very good bang for buck.
and a good tool with good features helps the DIY, and a DIY tune is as good as the research put it and the amount of time spent logging on the street;
besides the Scan/Tune tool, another good tool is the WBO2, gives the DIY a very good bang for buck.
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Verdad Gallardo TECH Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,080
Likes: 17
From: So.Cal.
So a good DIY tune (where I'm coming from) consists of:
a. researched topics,
b. right tools (log/scan/tune/wbo2),
c. street time,
d. dyno time for WOT (if you go to the track),
e. being open to ideas (SD)
The actual methods may vary, and different methods give various results (good/better/best),
and forum searches show which methods give good/easy/consistent results.
a. researched topics,
b. right tools (log/scan/tune/wbo2),
c. street time,
d. dyno time for WOT (if you go to the track),
e. being open to ideas (SD)
The actual methods may vary, and different methods give various results (good/better/best),
and forum searches show which methods give good/easy/consistent results.
Originally Posted by GrannySShifting
Id have to respectfully disagree with such a bold statement myself.
You can have all the tools in the world, but you have to know how to use them correctly to get the job done. The "easiest" tuning software to use sometimes gives the user a sense of over security sometimes I think
A car is properly tuned when it goes down the track making max power as reliably as the setup should be expected - and driveability is on par with what the customer is after.
I can do the same "really good tune" with LS1Edit that I did on ATVRacers car with what I normally use (HPTuner). It might take a few more iterations, but when done it would be just as consistant 9.7-10.0 car (how many heads/cam mild nitrous shot cars were as consistant as Waynes car? Track days where it made 8 passes within .04 hundreths)
Its more so the tuning tool behind the tuning tool that makes it happen
You can have all the tools in the world, but you have to know how to use them correctly to get the job done. The "easiest" tuning software to use sometimes gives the user a sense of over security sometimes I think
A car is properly tuned when it goes down the track making max power as reliably as the setup should be expected - and driveability is on par with what the customer is after.
I can do the same "really good tune" with LS1Edit that I did on ATVRacers car with what I normally use (HPTuner). It might take a few more iterations, but when done it would be just as consistant 9.7-10.0 car (how many heads/cam mild nitrous shot cars were as consistant as Waynes car? Track days where it made 8 passes within .04 hundreths)
Its more so the tuning tool behind the tuning tool that makes it happen
There are plenty of tuners that refuse to embrace technology and still use cumbersome software, refuse to use a wideband for anything but WOT (or some at all), or still tune with IFR tables and PE. If that is the way they like to do things, more power to them.
It isn't about using the "easiest" tuning software - it is about using the tools that give the most accurate and complete picture of what the car wants from idle to WOT and then enabling the tuner to effectively use that information. Tuning the car to go down the track is one thing, but tuning it to be enjoyable to drive to and from the track is another.
Personally, I use what gets the best results for me - and my customers are happy for it. That is all that really matters to me.
Last edited by BLK02WS6; Feb 18, 2006 at 07:15 PM.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/pcm-diagnostics-tuning/454087-idle-drops-500-a.html
This is a separate thread on this issue, any suggestions guys?
This is a separate thread on this issue, any suggestions guys?
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,080
Likes: 17
From: So.Cal.
It's not about using the "easiest" tuning software, but using a tool that allows you to do your work easiest, correctly and in a timely manner; and knowing what to do with it.
Wrong size screwdriver ("easiest to grab out of toolbox") still allows you to drive a screw, but not as efficiently as the right size one ("must sift thru toolbox to find").
Wrong size screwdriver ("easiest to grab out of toolbox") still allows you to drive a screw, but not as efficiently as the right size one ("must sift thru toolbox to find").
All LS1Edit is good for is IFR tweaking and MAF scaling eveything else is a wash with that software and we all know how good IFR tweaking and maf scaling is good for driveability(which is subjective).
I am not sure i understand you when you say you think some tuning tools give the user a false sense of security can you explain? You yourself have since stopped using LS1Edit in favor of HPT and you surely can be saying HPT gives a false sense of security or you would contnue using Edit. So what do you mean?
I am not sure i understand you when you say you think some tuning tools give the user a false sense of security can you explain? You yourself have since stopped using LS1Edit in favor of HPT and you surely can be saying HPT gives a false sense of security or you would contnue using Edit. So what do you mean?
Originally Posted by GrannySShifting
Id have to respectfully disagree with such a bold statement myself.
You can have all the tools in the world, but you have to know how to use them correctly to get the job done. The "easiest" tuning software to use sometimes gives the user a sense of over security sometimes I think
A car is properly tuned when it goes down the track making max power as reliably as the setup should be expected - and driveability is on par with what the customer is after.
I can do the same "really good tune" with LS1Edit that I did on ATVRacers car with what I normally use (HPTuner). It might take a few more iterations, but when done it would be just as consistant 9.7-10.0 car (how many heads/cam mild nitrous shot cars were as consistant as Waynes car? Track days where it made 8 passes within .04 hundreths)
Its more so the tuning tool behind the tuning tool that makes it happen
You can have all the tools in the world, but you have to know how to use them correctly to get the job done. The "easiest" tuning software to use sometimes gives the user a sense of over security sometimes I think
A car is properly tuned when it goes down the track making max power as reliably as the setup should be expected - and driveability is on par with what the customer is after.
I can do the same "really good tune" with LS1Edit that I did on ATVRacers car with what I normally use (HPTuner). It might take a few more iterations, but when done it would be just as consistant 9.7-10.0 car (how many heads/cam mild nitrous shot cars were as consistant as Waynes car? Track days where it made 8 passes within .04 hundreths)
Its more so the tuning tool behind the tuning tool that makes it happen
Originally Posted by HumpinSS
I am not sure i understand you when you say you think some tuning tools give the user a false sense of security can you explain? You yourself have since stopped using LS1Edit in favor of HPT and you surely can be saying HPT gives a false sense of security or you would contnue using Edit. So what do you mean?
A bad tuner cant tune a car even if he has HPTuner or EFILive with or without a MAF, SD or 3 bar MAP setup, a full color instruction manual and a video tape
Like any other part of building a car for example you cna give 2 guys the same suspension pieces and one can get the car to hook and the other guy cant. Its the sum of the parts and user, ala my previous statement "The Tool and the Tool behind the Tool"
Hellllllp,i Am Looking For A Gooooood Tuning On My Car.i Am Close To Memphis, Tn.is There Anybody Around Here?'72ss Camaro Ls1,built 6spd,ram Hd Bil F/w,macs,dr Gas,denny's Ns,4:11's,ls6int,p & P Tb.