LS1, XFI setup problem- experts step up please
01-29-2006, 08:30 PM
#1
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Augusta Georgia
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LS1, XFI setup problem- experts step up please We have a FAST XFI and an edist on our LS1. The edist hooks up to the coil packs and the cam sensor. The only connection between the edist and the XFI is a white "points" wire. No problem, the edist knows exactly what cyl to fire from the cam sensor and the "points" wire will allow the XFI via a crank position sensor or trigger wheel to fire the plug at the right time. it turns out the XFI can't read the LS1 20 something teeth trigger wheel that has some missing teeth to tell the stock computer when the no 1 cyl is up without a translator box.
Here's my concern- according to the salesman we were told we had everything we needed but it turns out we need either a crank trigger that fires every 90 degrees, or an LS1 crank position sensor translator box that will break down the stock crank wheel into 4 pulses per revolution.
How in the hell can I run sequential fuel injection with these setups? With the cam position sensor hooked to the edist box it takes care if the proper firing order for the ignition but since the cam position sensor is not connected to the XFI, how would the XFI know when to inject the first four cylinders in order on the first crank revolution and the last 4 cylinders on the last revolution? That's assuming the XFI even knows where the number one cylinder is. With a simple flying magnet like from MSD it wouldn't know what cyl is no. 1. Maybe the crankshaft position decoder box can figure out which cyl is number 1 by using the gap where there's a few missing teeth in the trigger wheel, but the problem here is that without the cam sensor being connected to the XFI, how would it know if it was reading the number 1 cyllinder on the ignition stroke or exhaust stroke.
Since the edist wil certianly fire the right sparkplugs at the right time, the only solution I can see here is to forget sequential injection and go to batch fire. Is it possible to connect the cam sensor to both the edist and the XFI? Are questions like mine from people who wanted sequential injection on the LS1 were what caused the development of the edist 2?
I'm a little dissapointed with FAST and we were pretty clear to the sales people that we wanted to set up our LS1 with an XFI and sequential injection. The only way I can see this happening is by somehow getting the cam position sensor signal back to the XFI itself. I'd be a little pissed if we needed the edist 2 when we were sold the edist 1
The wiring harness we recieved didn't support this. We were never told we would need a crank trigger and/or crank position sensor decoder box, If we needed it and/or it couldn't do sequential fire they should have told us. At least ACCEL was smart enough to connect both the crank and cam sensor to the edist AND the ECM, it's the only way both units have all the information they need to support coil packs and sequential fuel injection.
I want to use this fast system, I need to talkto someone who understands exactly what my concerns are here. We already took wire cutters to an ACCEL GENVII setup and took it to the rifle range because of crappy tech support. We heard FAST has the best tech support but we're not seeing it. I need to get this resolved. It hurts to be confident with my reccomendation to my customers only to find out I was given incomplete information.
I'm sure FAST is good, I just need to speak to someone with a little patience who's familiar with configuring this system. I don't want combustion in the manifold when I start this thing up and I don't want fire shooting out the throttle body. The written instructions are vague and some really serious wiring diagrams and harness schematics would really answer a lot of questions.
Please help me. it's getting expensive taking these efi boxes to the rifle range and we really want to see this car go.
WHO DO I NEED TO SPEAK TO!?!?!?!?!?!
I NEED COMPLETE AND ACCURATE ANSWERS
Here's my concern- according to the salesman we were told we had everything we needed but it turns out we need either a crank trigger that fires every 90 degrees, or an LS1 crank position sensor translator box that will break down the stock crank wheel into 4 pulses per revolution.
How in the hell can I run sequential fuel injection with these setups? With the cam position sensor hooked to the edist box it takes care if the proper firing order for the ignition but since the cam position sensor is not connected to the XFI, how would the XFI know when to inject the first four cylinders in order on the first crank revolution and the last 4 cylinders on the last revolution? That's assuming the XFI even knows where the number one cylinder is. With a simple flying magnet like from MSD it wouldn't know what cyl is no. 1. Maybe the crankshaft position decoder box can figure out which cyl is number 1 by using the gap where there's a few missing teeth in the trigger wheel, but the problem here is that without the cam sensor being connected to the XFI, how would it know if it was reading the number 1 cyllinder on the ignition stroke or exhaust stroke.
Since the edist wil certianly fire the right sparkplugs at the right time, the only solution I can see here is to forget sequential injection and go to batch fire. Is it possible to connect the cam sensor to both the edist and the XFI? Are questions like mine from people who wanted sequential injection on the LS1 were what caused the development of the edist 2?
I'm a little dissapointed with FAST and we were pretty clear to the sales people that we wanted to set up our LS1 with an XFI and sequential injection. The only way I can see this happening is by somehow getting the cam position sensor signal back to the XFI itself. I'd be a little pissed if we needed the edist 2 when we were sold the edist 1
The wiring harness we recieved didn't support this. We were never told we would need a crank trigger and/or crank position sensor decoder box, If we needed it and/or it couldn't do sequential fire they should have told us. At least ACCEL was smart enough to connect both the crank and cam sensor to the edist AND the ECM, it's the only way both units have all the information they need to support coil packs and sequential fuel injection.
I want to use this fast system, I need to talkto someone who understands exactly what my concerns are here. We already took wire cutters to an ACCEL GENVII setup and took it to the rifle range because of crappy tech support. We heard FAST has the best tech support but we're not seeing it. I need to get this resolved. It hurts to be confident with my reccomendation to my customers only to find out I was given incomplete information.
I'm sure FAST is good, I just need to speak to someone with a little patience who's familiar with configuring this system. I don't want combustion in the manifold when I start this thing up and I don't want fire shooting out the throttle body. The written instructions are vague and some really serious wiring diagrams and harness schematics would really answer a lot of questions.
Please help me. it's getting expensive taking these efi boxes to the rifle range and we really want to see this car go.
WHO DO I NEED TO SPEAK TO!?!?!?!?!?!
I NEED COMPLETE AND ACCURATE ANSWERS
01-30-2006, 06:42 AM
#2
Staging Lane
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Arlington, Texas
Posts: 73
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by SERPENT99
We have a FAST XFI and an edist on our LS1. The edist hooks up to the coil packs and the cam sensor. The only connection between the edist and the XFI is a white "points" wire. No problem, the edist knows exactly what cyl to fire from the cam sensor and the "points" wire will allow the XFI via a crank position sensor or trigger wheel to fire the plug at the right time. it turns out the XFI can't read the LS1 20 something teeth trigger wheel that has some missing teeth to tell the stock computer when the no 1 cyl is up without a translator box.
Here's my concern- according to the salesman we were told we had everything we needed but it turns out we need either a crank trigger that fires every 90 degrees, or an LS1 crank position sensor translator box that will break down the stock crank wheel into 4 pulses per revolution.
How in the hell can I run sequential fuel injection with these setups? With the cam position sensor hooked to the edist box it takes care if the proper firing order for the ignition but since the cam position sensor is not connected to the XFI, how would the XFI know when to inject the first four cylinders in order on the first crank revolution and the last 4 cylinders on the last revolution? That's assuming the XFI even knows where the number one cylinder is. With a simple flying magnet like from MSD it wouldn't know what cyl is no. 1. Maybe the crankshaft position decoder box can figure out which cyl is number 1 by using the gap where there's a few missing teeth in the trigger wheel, but the problem here is that without the cam sensor being connected to the XFI, how would it know if it was reading the number 1 cyllinder on the ignition stroke or exhaust stroke.
Since the edist wil certianly fire the right sparkplugs at the right time, the only solution I can see here is to forget sequential injection and go to batch fire. Is it possible to connect the cam sensor to both the edist and the XFI? Are questions like mine from people who wanted sequential injection on the LS1 were what caused the development of the edist 2?
I'm a little dissapointed with FAST and we were pretty clear to the sales people that we wanted to set up our LS1 with an XFI and sequential injection. The only way I can see this happening is by somehow getting the cam position sensor signal back to the XFI itself. I'd be a little pissed if we needed the edist 2 when we were sold the edist 1
The wiring harness we recieved didn't support this. We were never told we would need a crank trigger and/or crank position sensor decoder box, If we needed it and/or it couldn't do sequential fire they should have told us. At least ACCEL was smart enough to connect both the crank and cam sensor to the edist AND the ECM, it's the only way both units have all the information they need to support coil packs and sequential fuel injection.
I want to use this fast system, I need to talkto someone who understands exactly what my concerns are here. We already took wire cutters to an ACCEL GENVII setup and took it to the rifle range because of crappy tech support. We heard FAST has the best tech support but we're not seeing it. I need to get this resolved. It hurts to be confident with my reccomendation to my customers only to find out I was given incomplete information.
I'm sure FAST is good, I just need to speak to someone with a little patience who's familiar with configuring this system. I don't want combustion in the manifold when I start this thing up and I don't want fire shooting out the throttle body. The written instructions are vague and some really serious wiring diagrams and harness schematics would really answer a lot of questions.
Please help me. it's getting expensive taking these efi boxes to the rifle range and we really want to see this car go.
WHO DO I NEED TO SPEAK TO!?!?!?!?!?!
I NEED COMPLETE AND ACCURATE ANSWERS
Here's my concern- according to the salesman we were told we had everything we needed but it turns out we need either a crank trigger that fires every 90 degrees, or an LS1 crank position sensor translator box that will break down the stock crank wheel into 4 pulses per revolution.
How in the hell can I run sequential fuel injection with these setups? With the cam position sensor hooked to the edist box it takes care if the proper firing order for the ignition but since the cam position sensor is not connected to the XFI, how would the XFI know when to inject the first four cylinders in order on the first crank revolution and the last 4 cylinders on the last revolution? That's assuming the XFI even knows where the number one cylinder is. With a simple flying magnet like from MSD it wouldn't know what cyl is no. 1. Maybe the crankshaft position decoder box can figure out which cyl is number 1 by using the gap where there's a few missing teeth in the trigger wheel, but the problem here is that without the cam sensor being connected to the XFI, how would it know if it was reading the number 1 cyllinder on the ignition stroke or exhaust stroke.
Since the edist wil certianly fire the right sparkplugs at the right time, the only solution I can see here is to forget sequential injection and go to batch fire. Is it possible to connect the cam sensor to both the edist and the XFI? Are questions like mine from people who wanted sequential injection on the LS1 were what caused the development of the edist 2?
I'm a little dissapointed with FAST and we were pretty clear to the sales people that we wanted to set up our LS1 with an XFI and sequential injection. The only way I can see this happening is by somehow getting the cam position sensor signal back to the XFI itself. I'd be a little pissed if we needed the edist 2 when we were sold the edist 1
The wiring harness we recieved didn't support this. We were never told we would need a crank trigger and/or crank position sensor decoder box, If we needed it and/or it couldn't do sequential fire they should have told us. At least ACCEL was smart enough to connect both the crank and cam sensor to the edist AND the ECM, it's the only way both units have all the information they need to support coil packs and sequential fuel injection.
I want to use this fast system, I need to talkto someone who understands exactly what my concerns are here. We already took wire cutters to an ACCEL GENVII setup and took it to the rifle range because of crappy tech support. We heard FAST has the best tech support but we're not seeing it. I need to get this resolved. It hurts to be confident with my reccomendation to my customers only to find out I was given incomplete information.
I'm sure FAST is good, I just need to speak to someone with a little patience who's familiar with configuring this system. I don't want combustion in the manifold when I start this thing up and I don't want fire shooting out the throttle body. The written instructions are vague and some really serious wiring diagrams and harness schematics would really answer a lot of questions.
Please help me. it's getting expensive taking these efi boxes to the rifle range and we really want to see this car go.
WHO DO I NEED TO SPEAK TO!?!?!?!?!?!
I NEED COMPLETE AND ACCURATE ANSWERS
Hello friend....
I ran into a similar problem a few months back. I installed the system on an LS2. And as installed per directions the system would not start the engine. It turned out that the XFI ECU required a flash update from the manufacturer to adjust the dwell time to an expectable limit for the engine to start. It is my belief that this is the reason for the EDIS2. This is something FAST does not allow the user to adjust unfortunately.
To address your question.… The XFI requires a 4x signal to be able to process the signal properly. May be a MSD trigger or their decoder box. The XFI does not need to identify each cylinders location thought the firing order. All the XFI needs to be ran in sequential mode is a signal stating when number one is at the desired point. The XFI will start the sequence from there and go through the firing order. I may have missed a question or two so please restate the ones I miss. I would also make sure you have the latest flash update for the box.
Chris Macellaro
01-30-2006, 08:43 AM
#4
I had the same problem, as macsperformance stated, F.A.S.T. makes a crank signal decoder box that will be needed. there is also a msd crank trigger wheel.......not sure about the edist2
the fast decoder is easy to wire up.
good luck
the fast decoder is easy to wire up.
good luck
01-30-2006, 10:12 AM
#5
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Augusta Georgia
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The XFI needs to know when number one is at tdc ignition for sequential operation- here's the problem- An MSD trigger wheel just gives a pulse every 90 degrees, that won't tell the XFI when number one is firing, it just tells the XFI some cylinder somewhere needs to fire. This is fine for batch fire.
Now the FAST crank decoder box- maybe it does the same thing as the trigger wheel and just gives 4 arbritrary pulses per revolution, so no gain there, but lets say it can actually identify the number one cylinder using the missing teeth in the trigger wheel, that gets us closer but it doesb't identify wheter number one is approachning TDC on the compression stroke or the exhaust stroke.
Either would work if the cam position sensor was connected to the XFI as well as the Edist, but it's only hooked to the edist and there's no output from the edist to send a signal back to the XFI that I've been able to identify. The instructions sure don't alude to one.
After going through setting up the GEN-VII I learned to get pretty specific with my questions and at this point I have to say the instructions are a little less than i hoped for. I'm not looking for step by step instructions that an idiot could follow, but a wiring diagram giving an example of the sensor hookup and an example of how the edist properly connects to the XFI would be nice.
ANother issue I'm not too happy about is no one at FAST suggested anything about going to an authorized installation dealer until after the equipment was purchased. I've wired everything from EFI conversions to an entire $500,000 insdustrial laser system from scratch and everything worked, I just had some decent wiring diagrams. Even if I didn't wire these things from scratch, a good wiring diagram is esential to troubleshoot any problems that might rear their ugly head.
I'll bet money that the edist 2 will somehow use the cam signal to tell the XFI when number one is coming up to fire, then the xfi will be able to run in seqential fuel injection. I wonder if I could just go ahead and put a crank trigger wheel on there and then split the cam sensor signal to go to the Edist and the XFI. Could it be that simple?
Now the FAST crank decoder box- maybe it does the same thing as the trigger wheel and just gives 4 arbritrary pulses per revolution, so no gain there, but lets say it can actually identify the number one cylinder using the missing teeth in the trigger wheel, that gets us closer but it doesb't identify wheter number one is approachning TDC on the compression stroke or the exhaust stroke.
Either would work if the cam position sensor was connected to the XFI as well as the Edist, but it's only hooked to the edist and there's no output from the edist to send a signal back to the XFI that I've been able to identify. The instructions sure don't alude to one.
After going through setting up the GEN-VII I learned to get pretty specific with my questions and at this point I have to say the instructions are a little less than i hoped for. I'm not looking for step by step instructions that an idiot could follow, but a wiring diagram giving an example of the sensor hookup and an example of how the edist properly connects to the XFI would be nice.
ANother issue I'm not too happy about is no one at FAST suggested anything about going to an authorized installation dealer until after the equipment was purchased. I've wired everything from EFI conversions to an entire $500,000 insdustrial laser system from scratch and everything worked, I just had some decent wiring diagrams. Even if I didn't wire these things from scratch, a good wiring diagram is esential to troubleshoot any problems that might rear their ugly head.
I'll bet money that the edist 2 will somehow use the cam signal to tell the XFI when number one is coming up to fire, then the xfi will be able to run in seqential fuel injection. I wonder if I could just go ahead and put a crank trigger wheel on there and then split the cam sensor signal to go to the Edist and the XFI. Could it be that simple?
01-30-2006, 11:30 PM
#6
Staging Lane
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Arlington, Texas
Posts: 73
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by SERPENT99
I'll bet money that the edist 2 will somehow use the cam signal to tell the XFI when number one is coming up to fire, then the xfi will be able to run in seqential fuel injection.
Hey friend...
The easiest way for me to help you fully and completely is to put you in touch with the systems LSX series chief engineer. I only have had to go to him myself as a last resort as the tech staff of FAST is normally very resourceful. You are the 3rd person I know of after myself that has experienced the same exact problem and I feel FAST needs to address this issue in a more serious manner. I will send you his contact information in a PM.
Chris Macellaro
01-30-2006, 11:36 PM
#7
Staging Lane
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Arlington, Texas
Posts: 73
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by silkey
so if i read this right,he has to wait for the edist2 to come out and then it should work?
As an installer and tuner the new system has proved to be problematic in its infancy. FAST is currently having problems with the new system working as delivered with all advertised engines. This is part of the normal growing process for any new system. I feel the revisions and new products are aimed to help the end user. Just a little late for me and a few other people who are trying new combinations that they should have figured out before release or at least before they stated that it would work on xxxxx engine.
Chris Macellaro
Trending Topics
03-17-2006, 02:08 PM
#10
LS1Tech Co-Founder
iTrader: (34)
I had the other FAST, but I had to use an eDist and the crank decoder box. Your best bet will be to get Dave Henninger's contact at FAST, he is in their MI office and should be able to figure your situation out. Or I can't see why you could not just run a crank trigger.
I run a BS3 now.
I run a BS3 now.
04-23-2006, 10:49 PM
#11
On The Tree
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 132
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by SRZ
Oh this is just great. I was just about to make my order on one but I'll hold off. What's another good system to use out there?
Haltech E11v2 will run LS-anything!
Too late the XFI is in my possession. 
I'll know in a couple of wks if I'll be the 1st using it w/ a Delteq ignition system as I've been assured it'll run since it's still using the opti signal. Fingers crossed. 