</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by theblur98ss:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by red53gmc:
<strong>Well that's just a waste of a programmer. Not worth the money. $425 + $150 for each custom tune, then if something happens to the vehicle, ie. wreck, theft, sold, then you're out of the money you invested in the Diablo. Whereas b/c the HPP3 can be reused, you can sell it if you need the money at any time.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Am I missing something?? Where does the $150 for each tune come from???</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I got that from Diablo themselves. Just like anybody else they charge for their time to make a custom tune.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by red53gmc:

I got that from Diablo themselves. Just like anybody else they charge for their time to make a custom tune.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">In reality it is up to the individual dealers themselves in determining the actual amount of cost to the customer. Custom tunes can range from nothing ($0) to up to approx. $150. It all depends on what modifications you require. Dealers should not gouge their customers everytime.

Remember, how often are you going to be getting a *custom file* programmed for your specific vehicle? Maybe 2 times over the lifetime of your product? Most will only get 1. One thing to also note is that you will NOT be charged for a reburn of your custom file if the file is not up to your expectations or does not perform as guaranteed. For instance, if your a/f ratios are still a little lean or rich, then adjustments to that file will not cost you at all. The customer is to be worked with to acheive results and satisfaction.

Hope this helps...

<small>[ November 06, 2002, 09:44 AM: Message edited by: BfB ]</small>

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Am I missing something?? Where does the $150 for each tune come from??? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">with any new product comes some bad info.

The Predator contains a performance program as received.

At first usage you download your stock program into the Predator so you can always go back to the stock program later.
Second, you then upload the supplied Predators performance tune into your cars PCM. You can then continue to fine tune the provided program with full adjustability of the provided performance tunes settings.

But, if you have a unique engine configuration... say a twin turbocharger setup; then the supplied performance tune program will not handle that extreme. This is where you would have DiabloSport (or any custom tuner) write PCM coding that is geared towards your unique setup (and you will have to pay extra for this). This unique program is transfered to your Predator, then uploaded to your cars PCM.

If the supplied performance tune can handle your configuration, then you can use it at will and modify a slew of parameters... squeaking out that last HP and get your A4 to shift like you want it to... all without any additional monies spent.

<small>[ November 09, 2002, 07:26 PM: Message edited by: Mike Mercury ]</small>

 

I don't know were you get $150.00 for a custom tune because it only costs $120.00 at the most from diablo sport.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by tmgxray:
<strong>I don't know were you get $150.00 for a custom tune because it only costs $120.00 at the most from diablo sport.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The $120 price is a retail price for most Fords. Diesels have a retail price of $225. The GM pricing has not yet been set in stone, but could range up to $150 retail. As I previously said, the dealer should work with the customer in determining the actual cost of the custom tune, and should never gouge them. So, in stating this, the custom tunes could range from $0 and up to $150 possibly.

Hope this helps...

 

I Don't know were you are still getting $150.00 because diablo sport said it WILL NOT BE OVER $120.00. Hope that helps.

 

ok will this thing raise/lower idle speed and or get rid of ses codes like misfire, if not then its a glorifed hpp3 and for the money LS1 edit is way better, so you need a laptop and stuff oh well the cable comes with the program and people, this is 2002 almost 3, lots of peole have laptops allready

 

It's my understanding Predator can't log or save date it's all displayed in real time. It's also my understanding there are no plans to add the ability to log data with Predator. Seems to me this really means one is still going to need A-tap and a laptop to collect data from multiple runs for the best tuning results.

As for HPP3 gains I've seen one car gain 4 rwtq with HPP3. I also read on the net of cars gaining as little as 2rwhp with Predator's packaged tune. So far I'm not impressed with either unit's canned tune but Predator has the edge over HPP3, and it should because it's about $150 more. HPP3 can be switched from car to car if wish Predator can't.

Seems like a custom tune will be needed with Predator if you do heads and cam. So $500 for the Predator and $120 for the tune. Still need A-tap and a laptop for best it seems for data logging. So costwise it's a wash. Need a good revision to the program and Predator MIGHT cost you few dollars. Need a revision with LSEdit and it's free.

The only big plus I see with Predator is the dealer support and network programs to pull from.

If Predator had the ability to log data and upload to a PC then Predator would be the tool for $500

 

Where are you getting the 500 from last I seen edit was 500 and Diablo was 425

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by BYBYC5:
<strong>ok will this thing raise/lower idle speed and or get rid of ses codes like misfire, if not then its a glorifed hpp3 and for the money LS1 edit is way better, so you need a laptop and stuff oh well the cable comes with the program and people, this is 2002 almost 3, lots of peole have laptops allready</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes I believe you can raise/lower idle speed. SES codes can be erased but permanent disable won't be available for a month or two. I've never seen a dyno graph that showed a HP or TQ improvement using an HPP3. Even if it did it wouldn't be anywhere near the Predator because the HPP3 doesn't allow A/F or timing changes. It also doesn't have diagnostics capabilities like IAT, TB position, LTFT's, STFT's, 02 voltage readings, MAP #'s, etc. I don't think the HPP3 has a redline adjustment either, but I'm not sure on that one. It's also not net upgradeable, has a smaller screen, and still costs over $300 shipped. Don't forget that LS1Edit has zero diagnostics capabilities. You're right that it can do more in the way of altering your vehicle's computer programming. But in order to get that diagnostics capability you would need to buy ATAP. At least with the Predator you get some good data to go by without having to buy a separate program. And even if you do have a laptop, it's pretty hard to beat the convienience of a handheld tool that pretty much accomplishes everything most people need when it comes to tuning your car. It takes about 5 seconds to boot and less than 2 minutes to upload anything including custom programming. LS1Edit is a great program, but don't think that the Predator is very far behind. What it lacks in additional modifyable parameters it more than makes up in other features. And the HPP3 is not even in the same league as far as performance tuning. The Predator has been making anywhere from 10 RWHP (in my case) to 29 RWHP (DiabloSport beta test car). <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

 

And lets not for get the support You get email and over the phone from James at bfb@lightingforums.com He has been great before I got the diablo and after. I think its a great Product for the guy that doesnt have a lap top or the confidence in his knowledge to operate LS1 edit.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by BullSSeye:
<strong>The current sale price on the net for the Predator is $425. The current price for LS1Edit is $550. The current price for the HPP3 is $275.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Few weeks ago I read the $425 price is only the introduction price and $500 will be the retail price for Predator. I've not checked the up to the minute prices so your probably right about the price of LS1Edit being $550. However, as I mentioned it does look like the difference in cost for HPP3 and Predator will be about $150.

As for Predator being cheaper than LS1Edit, if you need to do a custom tune:

LS1 Edit $550

Predator $425 plus what the dealer charges say $120 to $150 depending on who the dealer is. If the Predator tune needs a tweak or two, this might be $0 or it might be $20 or it might be $50 again depending on the dealer. So let's say for a heads and cam LS1, Predator will cost $425 for the unit and $120 for the tune.

Predator + custom tune
$425 + $120 = $545

LS1 Edit
$550

Still looks like a wash to me.

Change cams/get a Holley intake and port it etc and well you might need a little program revision might be $0 or it might be $20 or it might be $50 again depending on the dealer. I think even at $25 a tweak this could add up...Predator $0 to $100 probably depending on the dealer for your tweaking/revision.

LS1 Edit $0 cost for tweaks or revision.

Again looks to me like the Predator's edge is in the dealer support network to help you get it right, not price. Either tool should get the job done and it's always best to have more than one way to do something!

BTW if Predator could log data, I would have bought one. Bubba from Bama posted there was no plans to add data logging. I asked the question on LS1.com about a month ago.

 

The current sale price on the net for the Predator is $425. The current price for LS1Edit is $550. The current price for the HPP3 is $275. The vast majority of people that have had experience with the HPP3 will tell you it makes no HP gain and maybe some TQ if you're lucky. At best you yourself only saw 4 RWTQ (what RWHP?). The least you saw from the Predator was 2 RWHP (my exact experience actually) from the preset performance program. That's still at the very least 2 over the HPP3 without any tuning whatsoever. And my actual best gain was 10 RWHP and my TQ was over double the best you ever saw from the HPP3. The Predators dyno improvements are right up there with LS1Edit tuning. The HPP3 is nowhere near either of them. You can't just look at the precanned performance setting. That would be akin to me saying that LS1Edit made 0 RWHP / 0 RWTQ with it's precanned performance setting.

I don't know if you will be able to log data in the future. But at least for now you get a real time scan tool. Something LS1Edit will never have. And the "free" update that Carputing gives you is one time only. DiabloSport is going to give free updates for years to come. It's really not a bad unit. It will net you almost exactly the same amount of power that can be obtained from LS1Edit tuning, it has SES code erase and will soon have permanent delete, it can change fan settings, A4 transmission settings, etc. etc. The only discernable benefits of an HPP3 are speedo correction, redline, and resaleability. Like I said before, it's an expensive speedo correction tool IMO. Not anything close to the Predator. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

 

If you just look at pricing and not the side benefits (like not needing a laptop and real time diagnostics scanning), then I would have to say the Predator's biggest cost advantage would be on stock to somewhat modded LS1's. For anyone who hasn't done H/C, the Predator is more than enough to tune the car and give you a nice improvement in power, equivilent to LS1Edit but easier. Then when you do switch to a H/C setup you can get the custom tune and be equal in cost to LS1Edit yet still retain the real time diagnostics and all without a laptop. Then even when you do change cams, unless it's going way more radical than your custom tune, you'll have enough adjustability built in to compensate anyway. Like BfB said, you'll need 1, maybe 2 custom tunes during the life of the car.

Send me an E-mail if you or anyone else wants pricing either now or a year from now, it won't ever be $500. But you're right that the price was initially $495 (call it $500) and the $425 was advertised as a sale price for a limited time. So maybe the online outfit will raise the price back up. But I can get you a good price for a long time to come. I'm just happy there's finally something on the market that will offer some competition to LS1Edit. I think Carputing had the software way overpriced because they had a monopoly on the market. Maybe now we will see the pricetag drop a few bucks to compete. I don't think LS1Edit sucks or anything, I'm just saying the Predator is a worthy competitor and each has their own specific advantages. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

 

See that is why preditor is worth the hassle to me. My toy is the wifes driver I dont plan on getting h/c just wanted a 12 sec. grocery getter.
I really didnt want to spend 550 on ls1 edit 200-400 on used lap top and what was autotap 180 or something like that. so you see all this pricing is really $425 for the preditor or $930 to $1200 to get set up to use ls1 edit plus alot of time to learn it with no tech support except for the great info give here by some of you. It really all depends on what you are planning to do.

 

I dont think the preditors tunning will be worth the hassell. If anyone goes h/c how is diablo going to know how your running all the way across the board if there is no way for the unit to record data. If they dont know exactly how your running in the first place youll never get a exact tune. It will always be a best guess situation and thats not good enough for my car or me!!! No flames intended just an honest look.